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Do runspeed enhancements matter in raids?
- Yes (61%, 207 Votes)
- Murloc (26%, 87 Votes)
- No (14%, 47 Votes)
Total Voters: 341
Loading ...Interesting topic that has come up over the course of the last few days. In Wrath it was mandatory for every raider I know to have some form of run speed enhancement either in the form of a boot enchant, talent that increased speed, or a meta gem that increased your run speed. In many cases if you didn’t have one, you didn’t raid.
A couple days ago, while auditing the profiles of our soon to be raiders, the question came up as to whether or not we really need the running enhancement anymore. The thought that sparked this was basically that with the unforgiving mechanics of Cataclysm in full effect, will that little extra run speed actually matter? Take Magmaw for example, he has two abilities that the raid needs to get away from. His little volcanic eruption that summoned parasites, and will throw you into the air high enough to cause falling damage on top of the initial fire damage. The other ability boils half the room alive, causing massive damage.
In the recent 10 mans I’ve run, I noticed that the vast majority of people did not have any form of increased run speed. Shockingly enough, the only deaths we had were some tank deaths resulting from learning the healing of a new encounter, and well, that’s pretty much it. No one died to parasites, explosions or being boiled alive. Now before you say anything, while I love my guildies and raiders, some of those in attendance have what I like to call “shiny object syndrome” and even they were able to avoid “standing in the bad”. Now I have also seen many people even with the run speed boost die to something that was telegraphed because they didn’t move early enough, leaving the run speed boost doing nothing.
There’s no question about it, the game is much more punishing than it was before. Part of this is due to the new raid and boss designs, the other part is that healers can’t compensate like we used to. Before, if you got caught in the bad, the faster you got out of it, the more likely we could power heal through it. Now though, if you get caught in the bad, even for a few short seconds, you’re pretty much likely to be much raid-kill.
So that leads us to today’s question. Is the run speed enhancement really necessary anymore? Do you think it outweighs the other bonuses you can use in place of it whether it is +Haste or +Mastery to boots? How about talents? Not only do we have the lovely poll at the top, but I’m looking forward to your comments on this one.
As long as fights exist that require lots of movement (almost all of them), a run speed enchant will be required. It’s not so much a avoiding mechanics, it’s getting to where you need to be (Twins Blackout collapse/spread for example). How quickly you get there is heavily influenced by that little bit of a speed boost.
In all honesty, I do think it matters. I can’t quite put my finger on the why, but still.
For a shaman, it’s now possible for all specs to grab Ancestral Swiftness. And, partly because there are not enough must-have talents, in my guild it comes strongly recommended for any shaman.
I used to have Pursuit of Justice on my paladin tank, until 4.0.1. I don’t have the runspeed enchant either. And I miss it. While I’m not sure about the necessity of a runspeed enchant or talent, I think it’s just as nice an addition to raiding as any other enchant.
Screw theorycrafting. Increased run speed rocks.
Forgive me if this is not coherent, but right now I do not think that strict run speed enhancements are necessary right now. I know in wrath, my guild never required any type of run speed enhancement and we did very, very well.
I have never required any additional run speed enchantments or gems because as a DK, it was built in, but I think that many players would benefit from a mastery/haste/etc enhancement rather than run speed. Like you said in your post, increased run speed isn’t going to save a person who isn’t paying attention.
With the new encounters, I think that having a basic understanding of the fights and knowing where to stand would be more beneficial then that extra little bit of movement speed. Knowing the signs of when to move and paying attention is more important. Even if you have the “SHINY!” syndrome, that does not excuse you from focusing, nor does it excuse you from not moving when something bad appears beneath your feet. Reaction time is more important. If you react to something quickly, you shouldn’t need the speed boost. (Of course, if your latency is higher, you might well need the boost).
So no, I do not think run speed enhancements should be required right now. They might help out some players, but if you are already good and know how to pay attention and focus, spend your enchantment slot on something more useful.
(again, apologies if this wasn’t coherent. I haven’t slept in a long while…)
I’ll be getting a run speed enchant, but I won’t require it from my guildies (unless someone is failing consistently at running). For me… I’m one of those tunnel vision people (healing healing healing shit death under me), so anything that makes me move faster is useful.
Since you are a healer, I think you might be missing one of the primary benefits of the run-speed enchant. For DPS classes (especially melee) they mean less DPS loss when mechanics demand movement, which can spell the difference between a wipe and a kill. They are still really useful for healers, though, in my humble opinion.
Magmaw is not a great example of a movement fight, honestly – there are none of the really punishing “GTFO!” mechanics that you’ll see in Ascendant Council, Twin Dragons, or Maloriak.
I think a run speed enchant is something that most raiders (esp. 25s) will continue to rock – remember that you’re dealing with normal mode encounters that can be much more forgiving to slow movement.
I’m in the yes camp FYI, it was just something I and the other section leads were debating at the time.
I don’t think extra movespeed ever hurts, and particularly in such a dynamic environment.
If you get caught in the bad, you’re dead; but the likely hood you can get out of the bad is greater if you can move quickly.
This is the first time I’ve ever heard the movement speed enchants are or were mandatory. I always had one anyway, because that one enchant gave stamina as well, and that was actually mandatory for a tank. But not because of the run speed. Therefore, I voted murloc. 😉
Sure, the run speed never hurts, but… Not standing in the Fire(tm) is a matter of awareness first and foremost, the enchant/talent/meta won’t help you if you fail at noticing the Fire(tm).
Necessary? Probably not. Beneficial? Definitely. To me, it isn’t so much about moving out of fire/voids. It is for getting to where you need to be faster. As a caster, it means you can start casting that .1 seconds sooner. Some for a healer. Melee DPS will better keep up on the backside of a boss that needs to be kited. Unfortunately there is little to no way to quantify what a little extra movement speed brings to someone in terms of numbers. I think it is one of those things where to some people it will make perfect sense as being beneficial and others will not grasp it. Even so, the alternates don’t make that much of a difference.
An old mage habit taught me that run speed enchants are fantastic, simply because of ABC – always be casting. The standing out of the fire issue is just a bonus, frankly – as people said, the run speed doesn’t make such a difference there.
On my Paladin, whether or not it’s as genuinely useful as Eternal Glory or Divinity, I’ve kept a spec with Pursuit of Justice, even as Holy.
When I reach hardmodes, I imagine I’ll have to respec back into Eternal Glory simply because Tank Damage will be that punishing, but for now I enjoy the slightly larger run speed for all purposes.
I’m in the “no” camp…just as I was in Wrath. Nice to have, yes, and yes, if you’re a top-tier guild (top 10%), mandatory. For the rest of us? Not so much. I know a LOT of people with Kingslayer titles who never used any kind of run boost in Wrath.
That said: I now play an Enhancement Shaman, and yes, I have two points in Ancestral Swiftness. But that’s so I can get into Spirit Wolf form in 0.5 sec. 😉
Yes – resoundingly so. Tanks – get into position and pick up adds faster. DPS – get into position and start hurting things faster. Same for healers. Maybe having the run speed means that I can afford to let that cast finish instead of interrupting it before breaking for a clear spot. I think becuase the fights are less forgiving is a reason to have it, not the other way round.
Maybe a seatbelt and airbag will save you – maybe they won’t. Just because they might not work, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be used.
I still think it is a must, for all the reasons already mentioned. I have issues leveling alts even because the feel like they move too slow >_>;
I want to point out that the poll question was, do the enchants matter — hell yes. Are they required? I don’t know yet. Given that Patchwerk fights seem to be a thing of the past, I would say that everyone needs to get the tools to make moving part of their class.
Some classes get better boosts than the chant gives. (I’ve found myself using Inner Will as much as or more than Inner Fire on my priest, both healing and dps.) But I think that it is telling that about 1/3 of the new spells in Cata are centered around moving players from one point to another.
I think you’re focused too much on one reason for run speed enchants. There are two reasons for run speed enchants, first, the one you mentioned, moving out of fire.
Second, getting where you want to be faster. If you run 8% faster, you spend 8% less time moving every fight. Alot of these fights are heavily movement based, and because healers and casters are both punished for moving with reduced throughput. So if you spend at least 1/8th of the fight moving, and your running throughput is half of your normal throughput, then unless another enchant would provide more than a 0.5% increase in your throughput (which seems unlikely for only 50 mastery or haste), the run speed enchant is not only good for survivability, but is a throughput increase as well.
Once you consider both survivability and throughput, I think that it’s the clear enchant for all caster and healer classes. I normally play a tank, and I swear by runspeed, so I have it on my warrior, DK, and bear, but my paladin main has Pursuit of Justice, of course, which trumps all the others. Sometimes a boss has to be moved out of empowering stuff fast, and so I view runspeed as greater than other small improvements.
Interestingly enough, most melee dps come with a runspeed increaser in their talents (feral kitty dps, enh shammy dps, ret pally dps) so they wouldn’t benefit from a runspeed enchant even if they got one.
I know that my guild requires them and they are considered mandatory enchants.
I have two views on them. The first is that they could be used sort of like training wheels. Get people in the habit of moving out of things with the enchants and once they show that this isn’t a problem for them then allow them to change their boot enchant to something more useful. If said individual still has issues, even with the assistance, make them keep it on there until they improve.
The other view I have is that they shouldn’t be necessary, but they are and have to be. Human error is common. We all make mistakes. Some are more prone than others. If we could ensure a 100%, I swear I will never do it chance that an error would never take place, sure. Nobody can promise that. So for situations like this, in the real world, I think the enchants are a big help.
I’ve always thought that run-speed enchants were kind of a silly requirement. I understand their utility, and I think for people who need that crutch, they’re available. I also think, though, that people with quick reaction times should be able to maximize their own preferred stat, rather than be required to enchant what essentially boils down to training wheels.
As far as I understand, raids aren’t balanced with the understanding that all people will have a movement increase buff, which means all the bosses are doable without them. Does that mean we shouldn’t use them? Not at all. Bosses are also tuned (except for Naxx40 back in the day) to not require consumables, but we use the heck out of them anyway. It gives us an edge.
Run-speed enchants are similar. If a person feels that he or she needs it, then it’s there. But making it mandatory is like putting a dunce-hat on your guild, insinuating that no one among them is smart enough to not stand in the fire or realize when they have an add eating their cookies. Recommend them, put free scrolls in the guild bank, tell everyone your amazing experiences with them, but don’t require them.
I don’t feel run speed enchants ever were necessary. What was necessary was getting your job done–which means staying out damaging mechanics, taking part in mechanics necessary to win and healing effectively/doing solid DPS/holding aggro.
If a run speed enchant was a tool you needed to get your job done, by all means pick one up. It’s a useful tool. If you were able to be where you needed to be without one and got greater benefit from an enchant more directly related to your healer/DPS/tanking role, then go that route.
I don’t believe in rigid litmus tests, either for recruiting or for raid eligibility. In terms of recruiting, I’m much more interested in how they talk about their role, performance and game choices than in whether they have a specific enchant. As for raid eligibility, there were always plenty of dungeons or alt raids in which to gauge whether a person was capable. This is even more true now that heroics have unforgiving mechanics that more closely approximate raid mechanics.
Ultimately, when it comes to raiding, nothing is required except doing a good job. You’d better stay out of the fire…whether or not you have a run speed enchant.
This! Exactly this.
Surprise: Runspeed enchants are not just an escape tool.
Most people will probably not be able to appreciate this because it’s not an easily quantifiable benefit, but a runspeed enchant increases your dps on most encounters more than a little bit of stats will.
During vanilla (yes that long ago) comprehensive tests were done on the impact of runspeed enchants on dps in moderate to high mobility fights. The results were rather impressive. Now, back then mobility in fights was lower than it was now, so the argument in favor of it has since then only become stronger.
It might not be that usefull for avoiding big bads anymore, but it will still get you to point B quicker, thus enabling you to heal sooner/dps more/get more threat.
Especially for dps movement speed probably gives you the biggest dps boost of all the enchants/alternative talents.
I’m in the yes camp. It’s never a necessary enchant, but it provides you with this little bit of extra uptime as dps. Especially since I play a melee dps.
There are too many fights I can think of in Cata that requires me to run around. The best example I have is the twilight ascendant council. I have imp intercept as a warrior specced, and still that’s not enough for getting to bosses. Phase 2 is a torture for everyone in terms of movement. You have to get a grounded/lifted debuff every min. And the tornado you have to reach actually moves. Not only that, you get knock back in the tornado which sometimes throws you straight into a well. This means another round of chase the tornado. Then there’s the lightning rods which requires you to run to the edge of the room. And at the same time, all of us melees are expected to get in range of Terrestra to interrupt harderened skin (ie we should have high up time at the boss). I’m sure 8% runspeed will have provided me with better dps than haste or mastery here.
Run speed enchants are essential. It isn’t just a matter of getting out of the fire faster, in most cases they are a DPS / HPS increase because you get to where you’re going or get back on the boss more quickly. Unfortunately most spreadsheets don’t model this and so people skip opt for the inferior enchant.
I’ve always regarded them as mandatory, for every raid role, for two reasons. First: decreased travel time. No matter how fast I react to an effect, and regardless of whether or not I incur any damage, the fact remains that I have to move. And to me, when I move doesn’t matter so much to me as how much time I spend doing it. Put another way: how much haste would I need to stack to make up for the half second I gain every time I move out of fire? Way more than the 50 haste to boots that the run speed enchant replaces, I can tell you that much.
Secondly, and more importantly, run speed enchants increase my margin for error, if only by a slight bit. But that slight bit for me personally, multiplied by 10 or 25 players, multiplied by the number of times each of them has to move during an encounter, translates to a fairly sizable buffer between us and the cascade of events before a wipe.
There’s a reason the enchants are touted by top guilds and theorycrafters–because the above two points are worth more to the raid than the piddly 50 haste or other enchant that you would gain.
1. Roll a shaman
2. Spec into improved Ghost Wolf
3. Enchant your boots w whatever you feel like
Run speed is a quality of life thing for me. I don’t like not having it, and the less time I have to spend moving in an encounter the less twitchy I am. That’s totally worth a talent point or a boot enchant, personally.
In general I would have to say no. But as a healer, I would have to say most definitely! Due to the highly mobile fight mechanics, I found it to be an advantage, albeit a small one. It allows me to get to someone who might be out of range just that much quicker to get them that much needed heal.
The cata run-speed ench is a +mastery enchant. If mastery is halfway desirable for your spec, do it, why would you not. Since some specs have really bad masteries, 50 haste through the entire fight may be a lot better than getting to safe spot 1/100th of a second sooner. On top of that, many specs have a mobility tool already at hand that may be better. probably better as a raid leader to evaluate each class/spec on its own terms
This argument has not changed. If you have always thought runspeed enchants were essential, then you should still be thinking that for the same reasons.
On one side, runspeed enchants compensate for slow reaction time. Due to psychological factors, it’s basically a kind of ‘+% chance to get out of a void zone in time’ buff and as such you only want everyone to have it even more now that the it’s become much more important to get out of stuff as soon as possible. This has not changed.
On the other side they provide early bird output benefits to everyone. Unless you have a Patchwerk-like fight on your hands, there are always times during which people have to move before they can resume their designated job. If you can move quicker, you can also resume DPS quicker, heal and get in healing range again quicker and pick up mobs faster. This hasn’t changed either.
Now if you had been talking about an enchant that adds 500hp and void zones are now doing 50.000 damage per second, then it might indeed be a case of “Is this 500hp still really doing anything for me?”. However, in this case, it has only become more essential for people to get runspeed enchants.
” In Wrath it was mandatory for every raider I know to have some form of run speed enhancement either in the form of a boot enchant, talent that increased speed, or a meta gem that increased your run speed. In many cases if you didn’t have one, you didn’t raid.”
We didn’t played the same Wotlk…