I’m wearing a sad face.
The guild rewards you guys are seeing in game are not hooked up yet. Guild rewards have 3 requirements that must be be met before you can use them. First and foremost, they must be unlocked via a guild achievement. Let’s just say, that for example, you need to complete the new guild achievement "We are Legendary" in order to unlock the Dark Phoenix. That achievement requires the guild to gain access to all 6 legendary weapons currently available in the game. (note that all guild achievements start on Cataclysm launch, so anything you have now will not matter, it must be done with your guild after launch)
It appears my Val’anyr will not count towards that guild achievement. I wonder if it’s because of a technical implementation or what? I understand that players come and go. I’m aware that guilds will rise and fall. Is that alone a valid reason to punish the guilds who are still around who have legitimately worked hard on current content (when its relevant) to earn those weapons?
The Wrath weapons had quests related to it. It would seem easy to simply do a check to see if that player had the quest complete. Otherwise, an inventory check might be needed for older weapons like War Glaives or Thoridal.
Getting Val’anyr took us about 6 months from start to finish. We’re very close to finishing our first Shadowmourne (7 shards away). Knowing that we have to go back and redo or reclear most of the older instances for it even though we already have some of them just so that it counts seems odd to me.
Or maybe there will be 6 new legendary weapons added in Cataclysm.
Or perhaps We Are Legendary won’t end up being an actual guild achievement, but more of a Feat of Strength.
Your thoughts?
It’s almost certainly so you can’t cheese the achievement by paying someone with a legendary to join your guild just long enough to get credit for the achievement.
The only other way to handle it would be to remove credit if everyone with a given legendary leaves (ie you lose the ability to use the phoenix if the only guy with Thunderfury gquits.)
The end of that post says:
“I am using the Dark Phoenix and the We are Legendary guild achievement as examples here but you should get the idea.”
I wouldn’t chicken little just yet.
@Aecre: Yup, I saw that too. I’m not so much worried about the mount or whatever, just the method by which legendaries are tracked.
Seems like requiring a player to be exalted with the guild before the legendary in their inventory counts would be a nice compromise.
If this turns out to be the case in Cata, I will be disappoint.
My guild is bored with ICC and we were contemplating going back into Ulduar to do some pre work on this guild achievement. I myself might hold back on my Thunderaan fight as well.
This seems very weird, I think it’s either the blue using a bad example or something that’s going to change before live. It makes no sense to reward people farming legendaries in overpowered gear vs. people who did it the hard way.
I think it is definitely for reasons similar to what Suzushiiro said, so people with Legendaries can’t “hire themselves out” to guilds for exorbitant amounts of gold. It’s not really a good system, as it does screw over guilds who have been together for a long time and actually earned Legendaries together.
However, I think this is more of an issue with tying GUILD achievements/abilities to something possessed by a single PLAYER. For example, let’s say my guild “Alchemy” of exactly 25 people worked their butts off in Ulduar and earned a Val’anyr, which I now own. When Cataclysm rolls around, does Alchemy still deserve the Legendary “credit” if 5 of those 25 people have left? What if 10, 15 or 20 people have left? Or what if everyone is still in the guild except me, the person actually WITH the Val’anyr? Is this giving the person with the Legendary the ability to hold the rest of the guild hostage? “Do what I say or I’m quitting and taking my Val’anyr with me!”
I expect (hope) that this system will see some revision before going live.
Surely they could put coding in to count legendaries if the member holding them has been in guild “x” amount of time?
That would eliminate cheesing the achievement and reward guilds that have worked hard on the chains.
Otherwise it’s a bummer for those guilds that have :/
Pretty sure the legendaries in the achievement right now are placeholders. It would be borderline cruel to make a guild go back to Ulduar and Icecrown, not to mention the abysmal droprate on Warglaives and Thoridal.
My opinion, in a word, shenanigans. This is a very rough, unpolished idea. Tying the reward to a single item that has to be obtained in real time is, well, laughable. My guild has a Val’anyr, we worked very hard for it. We also have a shadowmourne and worked hard for that one too. We also got a Hand of Rag, Thunder Fury, etc etc through hard work. All members with these items are still in guild, but the idea of farming for these AGAIN to get a reward is not appealing at all, and make no mistake it will be FARMING. The drop rates on the items to create the Legendary items from vanilla are horrible, the drop rates in BC are absymal and the time it takes to gather all the necessary components for the wrath legendary items is insane. It hurts being one of the guilds that already put the time, blood and sweat into getting these items and being told that to get the cookie you have to do it all over again.
This might not be an issue if it wasn’t based on items tied to one person. I think they need to make it a feat of strength and put something else in its place as a guild achievement.
@Lodur, Kevin: I you’re right on this. It would be hella brutal indeed. Its just a bit of a blow for us old guilds.
My guess is it’s a technological limitation. It seems they want the guild achievements to be something a guild has done. If you have someone in your guild who has Val’anyr, it doesn’t mean your guild made it. You could have joined the guild after you had it. Since guild achievements weren’t even thought of until recently, the database doesn’t know which guild you were in when you got the item.
So by necessity, nothing that happens before 4.0 drops will count for guild achievements.
@kevin I don’t think it’s that hard honestly. Third party sites can pull data to show the dates you were with what guild. We do this as part of our recruitment to see an applicant’s past guilds.
GMs do item restores all the time and in order to do that they have time markers. They know when you got the item. While it would probably be a resource drag, they could tell if you obtained the item while with your current guild.
So yes, the database does know what guild you were in when you got the item, depending on how far back their backups go
I think the problem has to do with tying guild achievements to guild experience. Right now, guild achievements are a good way to gain guild experience. But they also want all guilds to start at the same point come Cata (or 4.0). If they granted achievements based on what you already had, some guild would auto-level pretty fast, or possibly waste guild XP due to the cap (not sure about the last part).
I think this is probably more an issue of them posting something that isn’t polished (which was said at least once above in the comments.) I can’t see them doing this as written for a couple of reasons.
1.) It overly penalizes guilds that don’t raid. The entire premise was that no matter what your guild does, you get benefits out of the guild system. Having an achievement like this linked to a “tangible item” is unlikely. I think its more likely a Feat of Strength.
2.) It penalizes any guild that isn’t running 25 mans. Sure you’ll be able to probably 10 man them in Cataclysm, but if Legendarys are typically available 25 man runs, it basically rules out ANY 10 man focused guild.
I think its an AWESOME idea for a Feat of Strength for a guild. There were a TON of achievements that they originally had in Beta for Wrath that never made it in. They were largely placeholders or just an example someone wrote up. Blizzard’s traditionally very level headed and tries to keep things pretty fair. With them balancing out 10 man and 25 man loot, this would seem out of place if it were a linked achievement to a reward.
It’s just a random achievement. It is unlikely to be tied into anything relevant except a boost in guild XP which you can get in other ways, probably quicker and easier.
While the data is present the current design removes a lot of guesswork for the programmers implementing it. What if you got 95% of your shards with a different guild? What if you pugged the yogg kill? What if you got with a guild then gquit immediately after? Or got kicked?
It is far easier for them to do a larger call, like “you must get it post cat with a guild that has enough of their members present.” It does kind of mean the achievement will end up like “insane in the membrane”, which is fine, as it’s just an achievement.
i haven’t really looked at guild achievements but bear in mind you could have done full clears off all instances/raids preWOTLK launch and those raids/instances did not count to your personal achieves. i can’t imagine blizzard treating guild achieves differently tbh no matter how DIRELY annoying it is. plus with only one raid lock out per raid ie no 10/25 difference they probably think we’ll all be dying for some fun old skool things to do (err no thats what alts are for damn it)
They just reversed this decision
source: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=26560536194&pageNo=1#19
@Lume: Whats up Lume? You never call, you never write, never send post cards :(. And TY for the heads up ^^
I’m afraid you may be thinking of the wrong Lume Matticus, unless you used to play a pally on Dark Iron
@Lume: Whoops, my bad. Thought you were Lume the Mad. Ah well ^^.
I’ve been called worse 🙂