My good buddy Matt just wrote an article likening himself to “Samwise the Brave”. The noble friend, no matter the circumstances, who is willing to swallow his pride to bring up the team. It’s admirable. It’s considerate. It’s exactly what I would do…
…for certain people.
A friend, alt or no alt, who needs some help getting geared. Maybe it’s his/her first 80. It’s all good, because I know this person. I understand that he/she is not trying to take advantage of the time and effort that I’ve put into the game for selfish benefit. I’m more than willing to lend my knowledge to help make them a better player. Because let’s be honest, you’re training a new class of raider/gamer when you do this. I, myself, have 2 friends that I’m leveling alts with. I teach them about kill orders, focus-firing, and CCing. My hope is to get them ready for hitting 80 so they can come into raids with us.
Likewise, a new 80 who lays it all out up front. Totally honest about their gear or their skill, and isn’t a jackass about it. Someone who is looking to the veterans for guidance. An under-cap tank that wants me to heal them through the early heroics to get some basic gear. A dps or two that may need the fight to go on longer than usual because they can’t quite pull their weight yet. I have no problem taking longer on a fight because they’re working on their rotation and getting numbers up (though that’s also what Target Dummies are for).
However, I can’t heal stupidity.
I’m serious. I may try to throw heals, but my finger goes numb and can’t press the hotkey. I could try to shield, but the mouse button turns to stone. It’s immovable. I won’t hear that “click”.
Flash Heal won’t work on a tank that tells me he’s Defense-capped, but admits later that he’s only at 510 Defense while trying to tank the upper-level heroics. “I needed a healer to carry me through so I can get PhAT lEwtZ”, they may say.
Prayer of Mending just refuses to bounce to that one DPS player that ignores the “Targeting You!” over the mob’s head, or dismisses Omen because it’s too distracting. With all of the “aggro drop” skills that are available, utilizing them might break the healing immunity that seems to have plagued my heal targets. Assisting the tank takes 1.5 seconds.
My new battle is trying to Shield the player that constantly hollers out “GO” while the tank is marking targets, or while the healer is drinking, or the other DPS are figuring out any CC that may be needed. It’s especially difficult when that player has the “Patient” title next to their name. Apprently that’s just a front, like a pub is a front for the Dwarven Mafia. My PW:Shield is simply answered with “Invalid Target”.
I always try to be a great player to run with. I’m always willing to help, if needed. If you need a fight explained, sure. If you need some advice on a talent or gear choice, no problem. However, if you find yourself a version of any of the latter three examples, then I have to apologize for the ineffectiveness of my heals. I can’t control them! =D
Cheers,
I love you for this post.
I will happily carry friends and guildies because I love them and they are awesome, but RandomIdiot#66234 is hosed ’cause I only have so much patience available to me.
I have actually experienced Mr. [Im]Patient quite often myself lately, whether it has been on my priest healing through an instance, or on my DK tanking through one. I too find this to be rather annoying.
If I am Tanking, and taking my time, it is likely because I am a little rusty, I will try to keep the group going at a steady pace, but having a priest as my main has made me more aware of watching mana, so I won’t pull if my healer is OOM.
Likewise, I expect tanks to watch my mana a in instances if we are chain pulling (though I rarely have mana issues in heroics), otherwise you may find yourself kissing the floor.
Ultimately though, I have found that the majority of players that I join up with are pretty respectable, and don’t try to rush anyone.
As far as actually carrying people through instances, I too will carry someone through one if I am on good terms with them, and I actually look forward to doing so next week (11 day vacation FTW).
They may not be using Omen, but I’m using Recount. If they’re not pulling their weight on DPS charts and decide to pull aggro, they’re party frame turns grey with the word Dead. It’s not that we can’t heal stupid, it’s that we refuse. A decently geared DPS and the tank are all you need to keep up to make a Boss Fight end… let the rest die if they’re gonna be stupid. Their reward, a repair bill a la Priest aggro.
Second boss in Forge of Souls… yeah, I watch to see who doesn’t stop damage when it says to stop. I’ll heal people through their stupid damage, but I’ll throw a shadow word pain up on the boss if they get linked, just to mess with them. Maybe it’s mean… but it’s karma.
I was healing on my shaman in Forge of Souls one time on my shammy, and I was running with some friends, so I decided to mess with one of them. He’s a mage with massive dps that we all envy. You know the type. So he gets linked, I wait till just just about runs out then pop an earth shock on the boss. My buddy’s health drops to about 20% and gives him a good scare I’m sure.
Now granted… I had to heal him back up but was fun nonetheless.
Interesting counterpoint to Matt’s post. I’ve only elected to go the passive aggressive route of withholding heals a handful of times in my WoW career, and none of those times made me proud. It may be fun to joke about, but in the end, I simply won’t abuse my power that way. Even the most irritating or idiotic players will still receive my best efforts to keep them alive.
.-= Vixsin´s last blog ..The Line Between Theory and Application =-.
Like I said in Matt’s post if X or Y player is being an ass, I don’t stand for it, but if players aren’t hiding the fact they are new or don’t know something and everyone is having fun, brute healing isn’t always a bad thing.
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I told a Pit of Saron group (it seems to happen the most there), “I heal damage, I don’t heal lazy.” If you won’t get out of the fire, you can burn in it. When your lazy debuff wears off, you can bandage, D-bag. I’m not healing it. If you die from that lazy, I’ll rez you. And you can sit down and eat. If you won’t sit down and eat, then I have no problem leaving you at 5% health until you get killed again. And I’ll rez you again.
But you still aren’t getting the health back until you sit down and eat.
And I have no problem carrying someone, but I won’t carry lazy. I don’t even do that with guildies — we’ve made it clear to our raiders, if you keep standing in a fire, healers are under explicit instructions not to heal you. Back out of the fight and bandage and pot.
this sounds oddly like our conversation in raid the other night….. 😀
Some players just deserve to die 😀
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I am usually pretty patient with idiots who are either learning or undergeared. Please who are whoring meters and are unable to focus the target though I have little to no time. Generally the converstaion will go something like;
** first trash pack pulled **
Upy: Wow 3 tanks.. kgo
/tumbleweed
Upy: Tank can you mark up please
Tank: marks are for nubs
/tumbleweed
Upy: Peeps watch your threat please
/tumbleweed
Nub (mage usually for some reason lately) : wow lag OR no heals
Upy: /learn2omen
/tumbleweed
If I can save them I will for the first couple then I just save my heals for people who are more diserving.
In a 5 man should RARELY require more than a WG and a Rejuv with a Nourish chucked in during high damage fights/mobs if the tank has half a brain (and its a dps who flagged as tank to get a quicker spawn LFG spawn) and dps understand the mechnics of hitting the correct target and watch threat.
Upy
.-= Upyursh´s last blog ..Making Those Debuffs Work For You – SBF =-.
I don’t think I’ve ever deliberately decided in advance to let someone die, but the situations do arise from time to time where a decision has to be made because it’s simply not possible to keep everyone up when all 3 dps are above the tank on the threat list 🙂
I came close to calling a vote kick on someone that was being just plain lazy though, basically just following along and occaisionaly throwing some AoE, but clearly AFK half the time, I was on my hunter for that one and the healer let them die on a couple of occaisions so it was all good in the end – repair bills for the deserving 😀
Interesting posts, both this and Matt’s. Whether or not I am happy to heal someone boils down to respect.
I’m perfectly happy to heal randoms who are doing lower DPS and seem to be putting their all into it, especially if they’re friendly as well. There are a variety of reasons they might be doing lower DPS, ranging from gear to experience to just needing some guidance.
Also – I’d like to note that most people probably have different ideas of what ‘lower DPS’ is, based on what they’re used to doing/seeing from their guild or friends.
What I *don’t* like are DPSers like the ones Thespius talks about. Those who overaggro on purpose, don’t care if they’re making the tank’s life harder, or generally treat the run – and so the rest of the party – with disrespect and contempt. I still tend to heal them though, because their DPS helps and at least in Heroics it’s something to do 😉
(Phelps – totally with you on the ‘eat once Ive ressed you or die again’ thing).
.-= Mimetir´s last blog ..Juddr: G’day folks! How are you? I’ll not be around too much over the next few days but keep me posted on anecdotes and interesting reads! =-.
Spot on!
I sometimes “educate” ignorant dps by doing heroics with the taunt-button removed from my bars (I usually inform the healer so there is no wasted heals).
I don’t care if I have to tank and be top-dps as well, it will take a little longer and so what?
But, my taunt cannot go off before the hunter have used his FD, the word “go” in any form or shape makes my taunt bug as well.
If your AoE-spell begins before I have used one GCD, really, you are just asking for a dirt-nap.
If you pull a group intentionally, I will pick them up as soon as they have taken care of you.
If you show up in blues pulling 1100 dps and having no clue about anything, but are honest about it, well – then just hop on my back and I will carry you through and tell you a tale about boss-fights 🙂
I’m getting rather sick of idiots and epeen shows. This morning had 2 fantastic examples.
1) list myself as heal/damage (I’m shadow/holy) and ofc get taken as healer.
It’s Drak’thaton Keep, while we go downstairs to start I write “please wait” in party chat: must respec. I change to holy gear (instant: addon) – click the spec change button. The tank pulls: we are not buffed yet, I have 0 mana. I gulp a pot, cast shadowfiend, heal – first group is down – no casualties. I say wait for buffs
Tank pulls 2 groups – I have 10% mana and group isn’t buffed.
I left group – case of tank idiot.
2) Nexus, I start buffing, tank chain pulls before I’m finished. At General, 2 melées stay in the whirlwind – instadeath. The tank chain pulls, the mage pulls aggro at every fight and doesn’t know what ice block is, dies twice. At Telestra, a DK manages to die. Tank never stops, mage has died 3 times already, I’m finishing fights at 20/30% mana while I normally end at 70% in ICC 😛
I left group again – case of 3 idiots in a group of 5, no point helping these people get gear and badges.
Seems the rule of the day for tanks is “don’t bore people” so they need to chain pull and finish instances in 15 minutes also if they have a poor fresh 80 healer in blues following. This only works when people know their classes and roles. These guys don’t even know that a healer with an empty mana bar can not heal, and are not even willing to spend 45 seconds at instance start for buffs, food, drink. They can manage without me, thanks!
I understand your thoughts. I’ve even had those thoughts in my head before. I’ve thought .. I should just let them die. But something about how I play the game doesn’t allow me to do so. I dont consider it to be carrying them. I consider it, doing my job. I liken being a healer or tank to being somewhat of a social services person when we sign up for LFG. We accept whatever comes our way. From all walks of the azeroth life. The over geared, the under geared, the impatient, the rude, the thoughtful, the awesome .. we do it all. We heal it all. We’re healers. Letting someone die because we can might make us feel vindicated in the end. But if we’re there to heal, and we’re not healing .. how are we any different from the tank whose not quite tanking or the dps whose not quite doing their share of dps? Answer: We’re not. The only difference in that is that one is a choice. The other is either a concious choice on the others parts if they genuinely just dont care — or ignorance that perhaps they’ve never had the chance to correct until now. In either senario, we’re being tested to prove we’re above sinking to their level. Giving in is weakness. It’s one run. Suck it up, heal it through. And ride it through until the group makes it through or decides collectively to call it.
Well I go for an intermediate choice Lipstick: I leave the groups if they don’t start behaving.
I am unable to let them die on purpose, the click on shields/heals etc is automatic 🙂 & sometimes I just wish I could, but also if I’ve been playing shadow as main spec for a while, I am still a healer at heart.
And again, I don’t mind healing the ungeared and the unskilled and the noobs, not at all – but I hate healing idiots, plain rude people and recount primadonnas.
These categories should understand a random pug is a random pug, and adapt. If they want perfect runs with only ilvevel 264 geared people, they should stick to running with their guild!
@Lodur – What do you think partially spawned this post? =) Also, it was a nice counterpoint to Matt’s, of course.
@Lipstick/Jo – I completely agree with both of you. It *is* really difficult for me to stop healing someone, but not impossible. I do tout myself as a pretty good healer who can get through MOST situations. I understand the “social worker” line of thinking. I play the game to enjoy it. It’s not all sunshine and roses, but if I’m in a totally disrespectful group, I have no problem bailing. My next post will have a touch of that in there also. =)
The rogue in Occulus PUG I healed, the one who kept yelling GOGOGO before everyone had even landed their dragons, then ran off to pull the next pack of trash himself when the tank stopped to wait for everyone to land?
Yeah, he died. Lots. He kept doing it. He was wearing full PvP epics, betcha he never had such a repair bill in his entire life…
I tried to kill him. I did. Mr. Impatient. The kid with a potty mouth and a bad attitude and was afk for the first boss. I asked to have him voted off the island, then he opened his mouth and said he was dc’d. /… But, I was so used to PoM. I kept firing it off, and dang it, it kept hopping to him. Then I used CoH once. Crap! Maybe if I just flash heal. 20%. I could only let him get to 20% before I couldn’t stand it and popped a flash. Darn it. I am such a softy. He ninja’d the purple with a need and logged. I wish I had a kill button for my own side sometimes. Or could really push someone into fire or off a cliff or into cleave. Is that dark? Hum, maybe I should reroll a horde rogue. HA!
@Lychoridia I’ve rolled a horde DK just for that purpose =)
I have read this and thought about it a bit and then read it and all the comments again. I have to say that I would disagree with your stance here.
When I join a dungeon as a healer, tank or DPS I’m there to play my part in the group and I strive to do so no matter how the others are behaving. If I disagree with how people are playing, I’ll express that politely in party chat and then simply leave.
Someone else acting like an asshat does not entitle me to act like one too.
Most recently I was trying to do the pilgrim events and while trying to run to the table in Ironforge and Stormwind I was killed and corpse camped repeatedly. I was frustrated and swearing and for the most part it ruined what would have been an enjoyable, relaxing morning of gaming.
I was pissed and kept wondering what made that fun for the players who were killing me. There is little challenge in killing someone in full PvE gear who is just trying to do achievements. Especially when you outnumber them 10-1 or more.
I went back to Horde territory and was sitting outside of UC when an alliance priest rode in. I spun around in righteous vengeance caught her with a hammer of justice and then made ready to beat her into oblivion. They had done it to me. Why shouldn’t i do it to them.
Because I didn’t like having it done to me. I was officially sinking to their level. Acting like an asshat because someone had done it to me.
If you join a pug and don’t like how someone is playing, the politely ask them why they are behaving in such a way. Be constructive in your criticism.
If they become rude or abusive, or just simply keep playing in a way that offends you, leave. Be nice about it. A simple “my apologies, but i don’t think that this group is the best use of my playtime. Good bye.” and then leave group.
lol clearly an interesting topic 🙂 I agree it is hard to let people die, but the reality is while you’re spamming heals on a fail mage your tank is at high risk of getting some quick big hits and dropping. If i can (without risking my main focuss) heal them through their stupid I will 🙂
Merry Xmas Ya’ll
.-= Upyursh´s last blog ..Making Those Debuffs Work For You – SBF =-.
I can heal stupid, and I can heal lazy, and usually, I try my best to do both. However, the tank is always my first priority; I’m second; everyone else is third.
If the tank is not being stupid or lazy, chances are we’ll make it through the run. If he is, then it’s still better than even that we’ll make it. But if there comes a time when there is just too much stupid or lazy, I’ll definitely let the group know why I’m leaving.
And if I’m in a group as DPS, I try my damnedest not to be stupid or lazy; however, I’m still learning most fights from the perspective of actually seeing what the bosses are doing as they do it. So, I make mistakes. And when I do, I own up to it.
Interestingly, the only group I was ever vote-kicked from, I was top DPS and had the temerity to suggest the tank wait for his guild-mate healer get mana.
.-= Kestrel´s last blog ..Merry Christmas from the Land of Aloha =-.
My new favorite game is “Shammy Roulette”. Once that aggro-loving terribad DPS starts to grate on your nerves, stop actively healing them. If chain heal bounces, ancestral awakening, and healing stream keep them alive, it’s their lucky day! If not, we can hope that their deaths and subsequent repair bill will trigger a wave of self reflection that results on them deciding to l2p. That of course never happens, but that means there will always be contestants for next time… on…SHAMMY ROULETTE!
Being my Paladin’s off-spec, I see healing from a DPS’ viewpoint and understand that there will be times when a DPS is going to have a fit of “Go Hard or Go Home” and steal aggro from a tank. It happens sometimes. It’s how they handle the situation that governs whether I’ll heal them through – and whether that mob was the focus target. If they use some form of aggro dump (wisely) or try to heal themselves through or burn down the mob, it shows that a) they know their character/class and b) are prepared to put themselves on the line and take responsibility for their actions. I stipulate *wisely* as it’s one thing to look at Omen and make sure that the tank is in second place before popping an aggro-dump, but another entirely to just dump aggro straight away and let a mob make a bee-line for the healer. When I run DPS, if Omen is saying I’m top spot and the healer is second, I’ll do my best to burn down the mob myself (healing myself on every Art of War proc if necessary).
I myself will NEVER leave a group if we’ve downed the first boss. From that point it’s personal. If I’m trying to heal a group of yahoos and idiots who like to know what Recount is saying after every mob or chain-pull to see how many mobs it takes to see a Holy Paladin go from 36k mana to OOM I’ll DI a Rogue or Warlock just before death. Why? Because they CANNOT resurrect, forcing the rest of the party to run back while they try to figure out why their character can’t move – and because I suffer no durability loss. The thought of running back will generally make the worst of the bunch leave and a frantic Rogue spamming party chat with, “Why can’t I move?!? What’s happened?!?”, always gives me a chuckle.
Since I’ve been gearing up my paladin tank alt from all blues, I know it’s quite easy for a well geared DPS to steal aggro from a tank. My bottom line is, if you steal aggro, you switch targets and carry on another mob. I’ve seen so many times when a tank has to fight over DPS after he taunts, because the DPS is trying to burn down that mob.
And what I get is two tanks. One in DPS gear thinking he’s fine, the other tanking four other mobs while blowing all his taunts on this last mob. Especially Death Knights, they never, never, and I mean never, stop or switch targets once they aggro.
I once even had a rogue thinking his 30% dodge is enough to tank those abomination elites in heroic Culling of Stratholme. I was on my paladin tank.
“Please watch your threat.”
“It’s okay, I have 30% dodge, easy stuff.”
“I’ve got 67% damage reduction.” I replied. (It was when I still only had 33% avoidance.)
And in the last stretch before the extra boss, he sneaks forward trying to solo one of the abominations, because I always taunted back and he wasn’t geared enough to steal aggro from me on my focus target. So I let him go on. By the time we got there, he was in the red and had to vanish or did some threat dump. After that he watched his aggro.
Some people just don’t realize they’re “fine” tanking those elites because the healer is spamming heals on them.
I will “carry” those people because I just want to get the dungeon over and done with (and you can’t kick them so soon anyway), but if they go out of their way to do stupid things, I will let them. Both on my tree and on my tankadin.
.-= Maaya´s last blog ..Tie up the loose ends =-.
I usually try to heal through stupid and many times I don’t mind so much. Dumb DPS and tanks can make some of the easier heroics far more interesting (within reason of course)!
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