Here it is. This is the long anticipated list of the minimum stat requirements you need to do the early bosses of Zul’Aman successfully. Having stats like these should carry you through Bear boss with a little luck.
Guilds attempting to go through raiding should understand the principle of progression. When you’re going through it for the first time, you should have no blues and not need more than 1 or 2 items from Karazhan. You will have acquired all the badge gear that you need and you’ve done Gruul’s or Mag a few times so that you’ve developed some ingame smarts.
As always, this list is subject to change at any time and without notice with your help and feedback.
Remember, I’m only a Priest and a Shaman. I don’t know the other classes as well. Any corrections and suggestions will be valued. All figures are after any kind of raid buffs or consumables and should be used as a guideline rather than a rule. These numbers are based off of observations and conversations with Guildmates and other colleagues who have made progress in ZA.
In Zul’Aman, there is a certain threshold of stats you need in order to survive and be productive. If you can meet them unbuffed, then you’re fine. There’s a variety of consumables and buffs to configure your character to surpass the mark that you need. It doesn’t matter what buffs they are as long as they exceed it. But if you go in there raid buffed and you DO NOT match the stats you need, you will be ineffective.
Let’s use my Priest as an example. I strongly advise anything over 8500 health. I’ve got a Priest that’s 6500 without buffs. Raid buffs he would top out at about 8000 health. That’s not enough. You never know what kind of class make up you will have going in there. You may not have Kings. You may not have fort. Maybe you don’t have a certain flask or something. This isn’t a 25 man raid where you can expect to get every buff known to man. That’s why I created the list with raid buffs in mind.
Do not take Zul’Aman lightly. It drops loot that is on par with Tier 5. The difficulty is about the same as SSC and TK.
Updates and modifications at the bottom of the page
Suggested Composition
2 Well geared tanks, ideally different classes (Pally/Druid, Pally/Warrior, etc).
3 Healers (Ideally 1 Priest for Imp. Fort and Imp. DS)
3 Caster DPS (Warlock, Mage, Shadow Priest, or feel free to toss in a Moonkin and an Elemental Shaman instead)
2 Physical DPS (Hunter, rogue, enhancement shaman, DPS Warrior or any combination thereof)
The DPS part isn’t as crucial. You can mix and match however you like. Zul’Jin has a phase where you have to have some physical damage going in there and when you read about it, you will understand why (phase 3). Bring 3 healers. I seriously recommend bringing 3 healers. You can disregard everything else on this page if you want, but please listen to me when I say to bring 3 healers.
If any player’s health is below 8000 after all buffs are cast, you may want to consider someone else instead.
Tanks
Note: I shouldn’t have to mention it, but as a tank you should be uncrushable and uncrittable at this point.
Warrior
Health: ~17000
Block/Parry/Dodge: A very high number combined. Hoping to find a Warrior to give me an exact figure.
Paladin
Health: ~17000
Mana: ~5000+
Block/Parry/Dodge: ~100% combined
Spell damage: 200+
Druid
Health: ~17000
Dodge: ~40%
Armor: ~30000+ (Thanks Karthis, Argonaut)
Healers
Note: The combined healing output of your healers should be approximately 5000. For example, you could have a Paladin with 1500, a Priest with 1800, and a Druid with 1500. But don’t go too far in the wrong direction. I strongly suggest bringing in 3 healers.
Holy Priest
Health: ~8500+
Mana: ~9500+
+Healing: ~1600
MP5: ~140 while casting
Resto Druid
Health: ~8500 (Tree druids move slow)
Mana: ~9500
+Healing: ~1600
MP5: ~140 while casting
Holy Paladin
Health: ~8500
Mana: ~9500+
+Healing: ~1600 (Flash of Light spam)
MP5: ~140 while casting
Spell crit: 20%+
Resto Shaman
Health: ~9000
Mana: ~8500
+Healing: ~1600 (Rank 2 or Rank 5 Chain Heals)
MP5: ~150 while casting (Achievable with recent Water Shield improvements)
DPS Classes
Note: Caster DPS should be hitcapped (Thanks Trollin’).
Rogues
Health: ~9000+
Attack Power: 1800
Hit: 200 rating+
Crit: 25%+
Shaman
Elemental
Heath: ~9000
Mana: ~8000
Spell damage: ~850+
MP5: ~130 while casting
Enhancement
Health: ~9000+
Mana: ~6000
Attack Power: 1600
Hit: 9%
Crit: 27%
Mage
Health: ~9000+
Mana: 9000
Spell damage: 900+
Crit: 30%
Warlock
Affliction
Health: 10000+
Mana: 8500+
Spell damage: +900
Destruction
See above. Warlocks, comment if it should be different.
Hunters
BM/MM
Health: ~9500+
Mana: 6500+
AP: 2200+
Hit: Capped
Crit: 20%+
Survival
Health: ~9500+
Mana: 6500 mana
AP: 2200+
Hit: Capped
Crit: 40%
Agility: 950+
Druid
Moonkin
Health: 9000+
Mana: 9000
Crit: 18%
MP5: 120 MP5
Spell damage: 900
Shadow Priest
Health: 9500
Mana: 8500
Spell damage: 900
Fury Warrior
Health: ~9500+
Attack power: 1800+
Crit: 40% (That too much to ask?)
Retribution Paladins
Health: 9000+
Mana: 7000+
Crit: 26%
AP: 1700
There you have it folks! Those’re are my suggested stats to get into Zul’Aman. Use it as a guide as opposed to a rule. I’m expecting a flood of comments saying that I went too high here or too low there. Keep it coming! Any updates to this, I will post on the bottom.
Updates:
12/01: Lowered +hit requirements for melee. Equalized mana regen among healers. Lowered health requirements among melee. Equalized tank health. Thanks Mera!
15/01: Added armor figures for Druids (Thanks Karthis). Raised mana pool and healing for Paladins slightly (Thanks Arduanne).
16/01: Split up the Hunters into three different specs. Posted one for survival. MM and BM I’m unsure of, so I’m using existing numbers. Hoping another Hunter can confirm.
14/03: Added fury warriors, Ret Paladins, several stats adjusted for hunters, shamans, etc.
Just two remarks from my (limited) PoV:
– Tankadins who are uncrushable have 102.4% block + parry + doge + miss anyway
– The figure of 17’000 HP for a tankadin appears a bit surrealisticly high. If as advertised a raid who has Kara on farm can move to ZA, I doubt you can get this with Kara gear, at least not unbuffed.
This is just hearsay from my side though.
I’m assuming Kara gear plus miscellaneous badge gear. Also note that these numbers are after being buffed.
My prot pally has Kara,Badge,Gruul shoulders and has reached 20.3K health raid buffed. Mind you thats with all health buffs fort,MOTW,Flask of Fort, Stamina food,Warlock imp and Commanding shout.
Just tonight I was at 18.3k health with Fort,MOTW, Flask and Food
I’m really not sure where priests pull their ideas for resto druids from.
9k health cos they cant run as fast. Shouldn’t a priest (say) have 9k health, cos cloth is soft, on that basis?
I will get one shotted if i have my 7k health, or the 9k that you advertise. Also, I find druids have higher mp/5 while casting vs priests… not sure though. Still, in a mix of kara epics, one pvp piece, T4 gloves n helm, and some blues + 1 green trinket, I easily meet your regen requiremetns, even though im on 1250 healing.
Also, your general numbers on health seem 10-20% higher than is realistic, for melee DPS, mages and hunters. 11k health for a fury warrior? seems a little off to me.
Id also be impressed if a duel wielding enhancement shaman could get hit capped on badges and kara gear alone. Same with rogues. Do you know how much they need to be hit capped? Its something like 29% i believe, maybe 25%. That said, they should at least have 9% (rogues enhance and fury warriors, so yellows dont miss).
Finally “in my experience, when druids get hit, they get hit hard”. Stop and think for one second. Druids are gonna be the only tanks who are gonna be armour capped from kara gear and badges. THerefore, when they get hit, its not gonna be nearly as much as a warrior or paladin gets hit for.
Mera: First, let’s not generalize that all Priests think the same. I came up with this list, I should be slammed not Priests (unless you happen to run into Priests that think on the same scale as I do) =).
Second, yes you meet the mana regen requirements. But you don’t meet the healing requirements. Would you suggest a lowering of healing or a raise in mana regen? Just because one aspect is fulfilled and not the other doesn’t mean you’d still be qualified to go in there. There’s got to be a certain amount of healing. I think 1500 is a good baseline number.
Third, as for health and stats and the like, I’ve said before I don’t play DPS classes. The numbers that I’ve pulled these off of are educated guesses at worse and actual observations at best. I don’t know what their baselines are. All I have to work from is what I’ve seen and what I get in response when I ask players. I guess hit capped would be the most ideal but I’ll correct the melee as you’ve suggested and drop it to a more easily achievable number.
Lastly, on Druid tanks that I’ve healed through on Zul’Aman, again this is from experience. I don’t know why they eat a ton of damage but they just do. Maybe I party with bad druids or something. But again, I’ll lower their health a little bit.
This isn’t just aimed at you, Mera, but to everyone else that wants to help. I value the criticism, but it’s not enough to say “this is wrong”. I’d like to see a “this is wrong, and here’s what I would do”. Thanks for your 2 cents =)
Note: All caster dps should be hit capped for their spec. (Meaning Afflic locks should have at least 76, but should continue stacking it)
Druid tanks:
32k armor
40% dodge is fine.
This list is a nice start, but some of these numbers are too general. For example, it’s completely possible for a subtlety rogue to hit 1900 AP and have worse dps than a combat rogue with 1700 AP. I would just say that dps classes need a certain DPS minimum, and be able to sustain it for a certain period of time.
As a druid tank who’s just cleared Gruul’s (with zero Gruul gear), as a Main Tank on HKM and an Off Tank on Gruul, as well as beginning to run ZA, My stats are as follows:
HP: ~22.5k (Raid Buffed)
Dode: 40%
Armor: 30k
Yet to begin raiding SSC or TK, but our group does run with some really well geared folks, so we arent having a problem with the initial bosses e.g Downing Narlokk on second attempt ever. Just thought I’d let you know since you asked.
In regards as to why Druids get smacked so hard? Even with the massive amount of armour they can pull off and being Crit immune with ease, they are still sibject to the Crushing Blows which hurt… a lot.
Sure your druid buffed has a 65% dodge rate, combinedwith the base 5% chance of a mob missing, that’s 70% avoidance. 15% chance of a Crushing blow means that there is a 50% chance that any hit on your little bear friend is going to SUCK!
I would bump the pally +healing and mana pool just a bit higher. I know with Kara gear (and starting to fill out with badge gear) I’m easily hitting 1750 healing and about 120mp5 with 14,000 mana raid buffed.
Great feedback from everyone, thank you! I’ve added armor numbers for druids and raised the mana pool and healing for Paladins a little bit higher.
I had a couple thoughts/suggestions:
A pally tank needs to reach uncrushable, which means a total block/parry/dodge of over 102% while Holy Shield is active. I would recommend getting at least 6k mana buffed as well, mostly for trash mobs. You get heals enough to keep your mana up for bosses, but on trash, particularly the gauntlet, the extra mana really helps. I’m wearing almost entirely Kara and Heroic Badge gear, and I have about the following when raid buffed, so I know they are all reachable pre-ZA:
Health: 17000 (18k with imp in group, 19k with commanding shout)
Mana: 6300
Block/Parry/Dodge: 110% with Holy Shield active
Spell damage: 288 (and I still have the KoT spell damage sword. I would recommend doing some arenas and grabbing the season 2 spell damage mace if possible, which would put it well over 300)
2 notes on hunters:
7500 mana seems a little high. I have Kara/Badge gear and run with around ~6600 mana raid buffed. I have no mana problems as long as I have mana pots with me.
And saying “You better be BM.” is just BS.
/agree with Jalis. BM hunters have better burst damage to be sure, but MM and survival both have much better sustainable DPS. My hunter has mostly Kara gear, and I DPS on him when I’m not tanking on my pally. Currently he has:
9623 hp unbuffed
6900 mana unbuffed
Over 2k AP totally unbuffed (no self-buffs, food, flask, etc), and I can push really close to 3k with raid buffs
Over 22% crit unbuffed
340 base unbuffed DPS
120 base unbuffed pet DPS
Hope some of that helps you put in a baseline for hunters, though each spec really has wildly differing stats. MM is the AP hog though, since you get an agi, int, and AP buff through talents, plus you get AP for your int as well. A BM or Surv hunter couldn’t really be expected to have the same kind of AP as MM. Survival hunters wind up with really high crit ratings more often, and BM hunters get the attack speed increase, and more pet damage, though their AP is lower.
You may want to think about trying to figure it out in terms of ‘Base DPS’ for Hunters and Rogues. They are the two hardest classes (in my opinion) to benchmark. Everything (benchmark-wise) for other classes is built into the class functionality (healers need +healing, damage casters need +damage), but hunters’ and rogues’ talent sets mean totally different gear/stat choices. Maybe offer a couple benchmarks like:
You need X-AP if you have 20%-crit, OR Y-AP if you have 30%-crit, etc.
After all that, I just want to say nice job on the blog so far! Hope some of this might help you out. =D
Jalis, Beauregard: Break it up for me. *All* the hunters I know are BM spec. What numbers would the two of you suggest for an MM and a BM? I’ll split up that category accordingly.
And thanks, it’s all appreciated =).
For a survival spec, I run raid buffed with
Health: ~9500+
Mana: 6500 mana
AP: 2400
Hit: Capped
Crit: 44%
Agility: 1000
Jalis: The numbers between yourself and Beauregard seem approximately the same with the exception of crit. I’m not sure what the agility of BM or MM is supposed to be but I’ve reflected it accordingly above!
Thanks guys =)
Raid buffed my BM hunter runs with 10k health, 6.8k mana, 2k AP, around 27% crit, and 600-ish agility, while maintaining hit cap. WWS reports put my dps between 900 and 1100. Of course, all of this very much depends on the raid setup.
Why did you choose for raid buffed stats btw?
I would have prefered seeing unbuffed numbers since especially in a 10 man group it isn’t always as likely to have all buffs going.
Am a recently converted resto druid gone feral (since my guild was running lower on tanks than it was on healers at the time) and stumbled on this thread through Karthis’ T&C blog.
Which leads me to another question, some of the numbers seem to be even quite on the high side (specificly feral druid numbers) for a team of kara-geared adventurers, while other numbers are quite obtainable even unbuffed (my alt shadowpriest for instance)… how did you get to them? Did you take a specific baseline or just checked in your own “standard ZA-team” for ideas?
For an Enhancement Shaman coming out of Kara with BOJ gear, you should have around 1200 AP, 100 hit Rating and 27% Crit Unbuffed. With Buffs your 1600 AP is about right, but expect the crit to be around 30% especially if a druid/pally is in the group.
Noonshade: I chose raid buffed stats because 9 times out of 10 we will be raiding with players who can buff. You may not get all of them, but at least you can get some of them. While I don’t fully expect a group to have Mark of the Wild, Blessing of Kings, Fort and all that, they should have at least a couple. By putting up unbuffed numbers, I feel that I’m robbing everyone of (semi) accurate information. I’ve only ever been in one raid where there were no buffs of any kind to hand out, and this was in Karazhan. It involved 2 Warriors, 2 Shamans, 2 Rogues, 2 Hunters, and 2 Warlocks. It was effective, but boy was it tough.
If I were to deliver numbers unbuffed, I wouldn’t feel confident about it. Tanks MUST have this amount of HP to survive in there. You can do it in 1 of 2 ways:
1: You can buff your health up to reach that point
2: Not buff your health up and get a ton of good gear.
But you must have kind of health or else you will not survive. So that’s why I wanted to say that these numbers are after full raid buffs =).
As for how I got these numbers, most of them were from my experience. I cross referenced most of the healer stuff with my own characters, I consulted other players (Phae for Resto Druids), and checked the stats of ZA guys that I ran with and wrote them down. After that, I rounded them up or down.
Remember that you won’t be able to kill Zul’Jin with these numbers. But you can do Bear boss and maybe Eagle boss. At least it’ll get you in there.
Chimba: Thank you! I’ll add that later on today.
I agree that having a raid with no buffers whatsoever in there is not likely to be (as) successful and as such is suboptimal. In my guild we will always try to get as many different buffs up and running, especially in a raid like Zul’Aman where time and efficiency is of the essence.
But sadly a mere 10 raidslots means you have to choose.
However i think that for people to see if their gear is up to par to join and be succesful in a good ZA party seeing unbuffed numbers is more fair and useful. It is up to the raidleader to provide the buffs (or place the people in raid that can give out those buffs). A post like this could work really well as a reference for people to check out if they have managed to get what it takes to be moved out of the Kara/heroic pool into the harder stuff of ZA, because i think that it is that for sure. The unforgiving nature of the timechallenge makes it even more so.
A list of (unbuffed) class requirements makes a nice reference for recruitment as well. If the people are geared well enough for starting in ZA (which this list is aiming to give info for i think?) they certainly will do ok in Kara, heroics, Gruul and some first steps in SSC.
But still, nice post and it makes for good theorycrafting. 🙂
I think the post was aiming more at buffed stats to give people an idea of what the stats need to be when the mobs start beating on them. If he posted unbuffed stats, then your overall tank hp (for instance) would vary a great deal based on what set of buffs you get.
I like the fact that he listed buffed stats, because it is easier to say “I will need X, Y, and Z buffs to get to where I need to be” instead of “I have the listed 14k hp, so I must be good to go no matter what.” A pally tank with 14k hp is probably about right, because after buffs/food/flask they should have 17k or more. But a tank with 14k who isn’t going to eat his stam food and make sure he has sufficient buffs (because it said 14k was good enough) to bring him to 17k will be really lacking.
I know personally, I have gear swaps that can yield me about another 1k hp, as well as flasks and food, which together is almost another 1k. But if I thought 14k was enough, I wouldn’t be wasting a 30-40g (danged server inflation) flask, my buff food, and swapping gear for more hp.
I think generally, people are pretty aware of what their buffed stats will be with whatever buff setup they have. Or maybe that’s just me, since as a tank, I am always looking what gear swaps, pots/flasks, etc I might need to change if I’m missing a buff on a run.
It still might be useful to post some minimum unbuffed stats for people that are less than sure about what their stats will look like depending on buff set-up.
Those numbers look good and are much appreciated. As for the buffed/not buffed concern – if you don’t have buffs in your group, it’s going to be rough. That just might motivate your people to bring pots/scrolls to make up for it.
Also, speaking as a main healer Resto Shammie, 8k mana sounds very low. I’m in all kara/badge gear mainly and sitting at 12k mana buffed. Because our gear doesn’t have much in the way of spirit, it concentrates on int/stam for the base buffs (plus of course +heal/mp5). With that said, there is no reason for a shaman healer to not be able to hit at least 10k mana. This also helps make up for the regen that we lack vs. the priests/druids.
BM Hunter needs some tuning. I disagree with one post about the BM hunter, they aren’t about burst dps at all, they are all about long lasting sustained DPS if played right.
The health and mana looks ok for sure.
The RAP should be more like 1800-1900 buffed max for a BM hunter at that level. 2000 would be the absolute max. And for crit, they should be toting a minimal 25% buffed.
What is listed there looks pretty spot on for a MM hunter at that point though.
Blue: You know I was looking at it the other day, and it still doesn’t seem right. I went into ZA with about 9000ish mana when it came out on my Resto Shaman. I might bump it up slightly.
Rixx: I’ll keep that in mind. If I can get some more feedback from Hunters, it would be perfect. But gosh, you guys are a picky bunch =).
Survival hunters Requirements are wrong, they have higher crit, but less AP
Rixx is correct the BM hunter minimum AP should be 1800-1900 not 2200. 25% crit is probably a little high for a bare minimum but 20% is too low.
ELemental shaman’s stats are wrong, mp5 should be completely removed, and +spell dmg should be lower, arount +650 is good, and most important, spell crits% should be at least 30% INCLUDING the 12% from talents.
I agree that the resto shaman mana is low.
My shaman has these stats unbuffed and he still has two blues.
1675 + healing
163 mp5 (with water shield)
8126 health
11,213 mana
Also what about cat druids. I didn’t see them on the dps list. I have a druid who switches to cat gear when not tanking, want to see what everyones take is on what i should be contributing in cat.
Also elemental shaman the dps should probably be lower. And spell crit should be a big factor. I think shamans need somewhere between 30 and 40%. I haven’t raided as elemental in a while though so that could be wrong.
I was wondering if there was any stats to guide a cat druid in how much stats he would need to be efficient dps in ZA. I know i currently ot in Kara and when i’m not tanking i dps in seperate gear. Just was wondering if you had anything for meh to shoot for =]. Currently for Kara i have 3k ap and 8.5k heaelth which i can’t seem to get any higher. xD
The reason I don’t have cat druids is because I don’t have a reliable cat druid around. I’ll try to get in touch with one of our druid off tanks and see what kind of numbers he pulls when he DPS’s.
Nice effort.
No offense, But you really have to do some research before writing a guide like this. I mean, come on, you don’t know the tanking mechanics, you don’t know the Hunter mechanics(yes they have their own mechanics :P) etc.. Even reading rew articles on wowwiki or official forums would give you the basic understanding of the class mechanics.
Total avoidance should be same for both warrior and paladin tanks for avoiding crushing blows. Ant it’s 102,4% not 100%. it contains, block+dodge+parry+base miss(5%)+defense miss + 35% for paladins(holy shield) + 75%(shield block) for warriors. As a paladin my holy shield is always active while tanking. But i don’t know if warrs keep their shield block ability active all the time.
A BM hunter and MM can’t have the same ammount of attack power with same level of gear. If a MM hunter have around 2000 AP, the BM hunter with same gear would have around 1600.
btw why hunters should have more HP than rogues and enh.shamans?
Ral: You’re absolutely right. I don’t know the tanking mechanics in the game. I don’t know hunter mechanics in the game. Why? Because I’m a holy priest. My numbers for healers will usually be spot on as opposed to DPS numbers. I’ve done some light reading on WoWWiki. The research I’ve done consists of me talking with my guildmates and group mates. How can I trust them? Because we’ve reliably cleared Zul’Aman on several occasions. That is my research and my evidence. I put in bold right at the beginning of the article that it’s a guideline not a rule.
The reason Hunters have more health is because I’ve had hunters complain about lack of health under my comments so I upped theirs. I’ve had little to no feedback about health from rogues and enh. shamans.
Now, you can either take this as a grain of salt or suggest baseline improvements.
Hi there Matticus! I ,like several posters, would like to see something on Cat druids. My main, Squirrelz, on the muradin server is a tank/DPS. I’ve been through most of Kara with him and have gotten some nice DPS drops, but am nowhere near done with Kara drops. For reference, my stats in my DPS gear unbuffed are: 7004 HP, 2570 AP, 35.25% crit and hit capped of course. I’ve never been to ZA, but hopefully these numbers will give you something to compare with the feral druids in your guild to come up with something to post here. Thanks for this guide, I appreciate your hard work.
-Squirrelz
Just one thing to add for fury warriors, they should be around:
– 1.7-1.8k AP unbuffed
– 10% +hit (at least)
– 9.5k HP unbuffed
– 30% Crit unbuffed
Hope this helps.
Casius
been checking out the stats posted up at the top and alot of them do seem abit to high, i personally dont get half of what your saying that with those stats you should atleast get nalorakk down, most of my guild members have those stats or abit more, and we have no trouble what so ever getting to the 5th boss, i play as a mage and rogue rull kara/BOJ epics, mage pushing 905 bonus frost damage 122 mana regen, and a combat rogue with 24% crit 1948 attack power being specced mostly into things that increase my crit chance with backstab, which in total is a crit chance of 84% after gaining 60% crit chance from talents, the group make up we find that works out the best is, 2 pallies (1 prot, 1 holy), 1 priest (holy), 2 mages (frost or fire), 2 druids (resto), 1 Hunter (either spec), 1 lock (any spec) and 1 other dps depending on the boss, keep in mind ZA can be 3 healed but some fights do need 4 unless the 3 healers are very well geared
and to the guy who mentioned warlocks being hit capped at 76 hit rating try 202 no matter what spec, if you want to succeed in ssc/tk you want atleast 202 for a lock and 128 for a mage depending on spec
but matticus as for rogues your detail guide is almost spot on, but depending on a rogues spec does play a big roll, i’ve played all 3 specs since my rogue has been 70 and i find 15/41/5 works best as a dagger specced rogue who mainly uses backstab, subtlety rogues do bring in the extra damage from hemmorage and assassination rogues can help out with poison which can be either a dot such as deadly poison or instant poison which seem to be the only 2 poisons which work on alot of bosses, but yes general break down of stats for a rogue in kara/boj epics
Health: 9k+ 8k minimum
AP: 1.8k+ 1.5k minimum (also spec plays a huge roll here)
Hit: 220(14% hit) 150 minimum
Crit: 25% 20% minimum (also spec plays a huge roll here)
as for a mage
Health: 8k 7k minimum
Mana: 10k 8.5k minimum unbuffed
hit: 90 40 minimum
Crit: 19% unbuffed 15% unbuffed minimum
Mana regen: 120mp5 70mp5 minimum
plaese keep in mind certain specs have higher crit rates and mana usage, and also along with hit 3 points into elemental precision (frost talents) is a great idea even for you fire mages as it reduces the mana cost of frost and fire spells and chance targets resists fire and frost spells by 3%
What stats are recommended for Druid in kitty form?
Just wondering about stats i’m a BM hunter and i’m making some kara clearence planing to go ZA soon.
ATM buffed with my group i got:
10k+ hp
1900AP
30%crit
hit rating 90
my base dps is 385
and my pet base dps is 250
I saw that for hunters MM/BM the advice is 2200AP
but it seems for me unrealistic cause BM got way more haste, i got 1.98 while a MM in my group 2.7.
So i don’t understand if i am well enough geared for ZA.
Thx for the help.
Shamans that are specced enhancement are going to have (and should have) way more than 16% crit. The 27% posted earlier sounds correct, don’t forget that our crits will buff our party’s melee AP by 10% of our own. The 1200 AP cited by that person sounds too low to me, however. I haven’t brought mine into ZA but 1300 sounds a little bit closer to the mark. My shaman’s only even been to Kara resto specced (and not won any enhance loot) and he has 1274 AP.
Ret paladins should have about an average of 1600 AP, 28% crit, and 7k mana pool UNBUFFED. The mimimum would be somewhere about 1500 AP, 26% crit, and 6k mana pool UNBUFFED, and of course, a decent amount of health. (around 8.5k or so)
Wow, some of you guys are being too hard on poor Matticus here! Give the guy a break, he’s taken the time to write up this nice guide here…I think it’s great to have something like this as a guideline (it’s not a rule)! And don’t forget, you’re on a holy priest’s site, it’s not the bible of all that is WoW.
Matticus – Great job! I play a balance druid and I pretty much agree with your numbers possibly with the exception of wanting to raise the health requirement a little (especially as a buffed requirement). Of course, this all depends on the gear and abilities of the other people in the raid as well…if the boomkin happens to ride a little too high on the threat meter and pull aggro on a mob or boss (as has happened to me many times), the high health is needed to keep that darn druid alive. Went to Kara and tanked Attumen as a boomkin once (thanks to the great heals – main heal, holy priest)!
I also have a 64 soon-to-be-holy (24/37/0) human priest and between your blog and dwarfpriest I think I have all I’ll ever need. My thanks!
for all you druids who are unsure of stats you need for ZA, please use this little website as a guide and please keep in mind look at the ssc/tk stats as ZA is basically ssc/tk equivelant
http://druid.wikispaces.com/Minimum_Requirements?responseToken=ecfe8fa57e051adaf9d6cbc5bcee6dc7
You’re suggested stats for Rogues are ludicrously bad. First of all, you might want to point out that rogues should be combat speced (PvE Hemo has no place in 10 mans). Second of all, why the hell do you have such a low hit rating requirement? 9%? That’s below Kara level. Try this out for size:
Rogues
8k HP
Attack Power 1600
Hit rating of AT LEAST 200 (and more is better up to 363)
Crit 25%
A few suggestions if I may.
Warrior Tanks should be ~15k armor and their Block/Parry/Dodge ~50%, miss chance included. Both should be quite easily attainable with Kara/Badge gear. Block rating is rather useless once the combined Block/Parry/Dodge hits ~28% to be uncrushable with Shield Block up which they should damn well have if even thinking about tanking ZA.
Elemental Shaman’s live on crit, Mp5 is next to meaningless and the spell damage listed is also a little rich. That all said, they’d want to have ~25% Crit and 800 Nature/Lightning Bolt(think Totem of the Void) damage (after WoA totem, so ~700 base), which is pretty light. If you really wanted to keep Mp5 listed… 75 w/ Water Shield should be easy enough.
Enhancement Shamans are pretty close, but I’d suggest ~1500 AP for ~23% crit. It should probably be noted that 9% Hit is obtainable simply through talents with an appropriate raiding build. More is good, but not at the expense of AP/Crit.
Fully raid buffed these stats should be quite easily obtained if their even half-serious about raiding.
While I do have a Resto Druid fresh into raiding, he’s just that… fresh. From what I’ve experienced and read, those stats look to be about right.
Thanks for the responses and suggestions everyone. I’ve taken most of your ideas into account and adapted them slightly with raid buffs taken under consideration.
Matticus…if youre the same one from wow.net…whats up brotha!!!
as far as ZA goes for hunters, here is a realistic approach for first time entry into ZA per spec
my raid buffed DPS is between 860-940 as a BM hunter, which is a good benchmark between just exiting kara gear/badge gear and beginning 25 man raid content, which puts you right around ZA levels.
current raid buff will put a BM hunter at
10.5-11k health
6800 mana seems realistic
hit cap
crit 24% minimum
1900 RAP
this will translate into MM spec as
10.2-10.8 k health
7200 mana
hit cap
26% crit
2300 RAP
and a non expose weakness build MM/Surv hybrid as
11.2k -11.8k health
7200 mana
hit cap
30% crit
2100 RAP
the full survival build will be slightly similar with a lower crit, but not by much.
these are set up with gear taken directly out of kara/gruul/mag/void reaver/badges
pretty much the ideal start for going into ZA.
for those that want to play with builds and see what kind of numbers they can get with certain gear, i would recommend using wowdigger.com as you can play with gear, gems, enchants, builds to see exactly where you stand.
hope this helps your gear requirements for hunters, as there is so much lee way one way or another to how you can go, and certian hunters target certain stats (agi stackers, AP stackers)
its sort of a well rounded number for everything.
I’ve been trying to encourage a fellow healer to follow some of the guidelines you offered here.
He’s 1300 under your health minimum, 200 under your +healing minimum and 75 under your regen minimum.
He’s wearing blue damage and healing items until he gets epic gear. He doesn’t have time to do regular instances because he raids on his main.
He seems determined to get geared up in ZA (instead of Karazhan), but I’m concerned about our ability to even kill a boss if we don’t have the necessary healing covered.
Unfortunately, our raid leader agrees with him and has said his weak stats will be balanced out by the 2 BT/Hyjal dps people we’ll be bringing along.
We’re Team B, so it seems we’re taking the “whatever we can get” approach to ZA. But I wish we wouldn’t.
Shadow Preist // Caster DPS
this is all merely speculation from my game play experience; i have verified none of this:
9.5k hp could only be attained by a shadow preist through pvp gear and stamina buffs (food + flasks) etc at that kara badges gruul level. also; if your shadow preist is running kara and gruul regularly; which is a big assumption; then that preist would easily have over 1k shadow damage.
9500hp is massive for a shadow preist; kinda end game / pvp type health.
if i am wrong please ignore this of course; just my 2 cents!!
Shadow Priest
Health: ~8500
Mana: ~8500
Spell damage: >1000
[my char has 8k hp 8k mana and 1.2k shadow damage.]
fury warriors should have 30%-33% unbuffed in zerker stance, 40% buffed with totems and leader of the pack
Your warrior stats are 2k hp above sane.
Eric: That’s a warriors raid buffed health, and that sounds right, most of the time I have done ZA both tanks (one being me) have had ~20k health. I only have Kara/Gruuls/Mag/BoJ gear, so that should be achievable.
I would go with something around what rottentomato had for hunters
BM (balance AP/Agil/crit)
~1900+ AP
~25%+ crit
MM (Stack AP)
~2200+ AP
~25%+ crit
Surv (stack Agil)
~2000 AP
~35% crit
I’m a little confused why you put all the trouble into assembling this list when you admit to not knowing a whole lot about other classes.
This is the first list of its kind that I’ve seen post stats while raid buffed. This is a much more confusing way of doing it. Unbuffed is the preferred way of giving stats. Heck, fully buffed a tank could be 24000HP easy. That’s just not how we talk though.
That said, I can speak on Warrior tanks:
Survival Stats
15000HP
15000AC
490 Def (or lower if replacing some def with resilience)
40%+ avoidance
Threat Stats
5% hit (9% is cap for yellows or single wield so it’s great to shoot for)
20+ expertise (I believe the “soft” cap is 27 which removes boss dodges from the table)
Please note, the only way a Warrior is uncrushable is with 102.4% avoidance which is ridiculously stupid to stack if you’re running ZA. Other than that, we use Thuderclap and Shield Block to be uncrushable MOST of the time. Fast hitting bosses can be a problem.
Curtis: The reason I did it is because no one else has. I have not come across such a list anywhere on the internet. I compiled the list after doing a few runs and taking notes on other classes in my raid as wel as speaking to them.
And that’s the point. I think I’ve mentioned it earlier and I’m going to insert this in the body as well.
In Zul’Aman, there is a certain threshold of stats you need in order to survive and be productive. If you can meet them unbuffed, then you’re fine. There’s a variety of consumables and buffs to configure your character to surpass the mark that you need. It doesn’t matter what buffs they are as long as they exceed it. But if you go in there raid buffed and you DO NOT match the stats you need, you will be ineffective.
Chiming in with Pantar here, Shadow Priest numbers need to be tweaked a little. Most PvE shadow priests (unless they’re in T6 or above) will barely be pushing 9000 HP fully buffed, and probably be a decent bit lower in MP too. Spell dmg needs to be higher though, raid buffed I’d say:
HP:8500
MP:8000
Spell dmg: 1100 (with flask of pure death this isn’t hard). I’d almost say 1200 with flasks+oil+food.
Warlock req lacks hitrating. 90hitrating is a must for destruction in Kara. 202 is the hitrating cap.
90 hit rating is good enough for ZA too. For affliction locks..hit rating is less important, but if they use shadowbolts..its still needed.
Affliction Warlocks:
Health: 9000+
Mana: 9000+
Spell damage: 900+
Spell Hit rating: 70+
Spell hit, cause we dont want to see those resists.
Spell dmg, important, but not more important then the other things(lower it from 1100 if needed).
Mana, more firepower.
Health, aoe dmg will hit you, and you need to be able to take the punch.
Destruction warlocks:
The same, only 20% crit is also needed.
Just wondering about the stats required for mages. +900 dmg, hit rating capped and 30% crit sounds extremely high to me. I´m playing as a frost mage atm and dont know what its like with fire, but for me that sounds pretty much impossible.
I would say that you don’t need as much mana for Ret Paladins. 5.2-6k is just fine, as you are really only going to be “capped” out once per fight.
I would only go that low if you are willing to burn quite a few mana pots throughout ZA. If you’re on the stingy side, trade out some of that Warrior gear for Ret Pally specific gear that has some INT on it.
you are wrong in one thing the having blue quality items. scryer bloodgem is blue and it have the same stats that the icon of the silver crescent irc so instead of looking at the colors of their items go read their stats and see if they meet them i have 969 spelldamage on my warlock with 3 blues. and only 2 badges item so really you should reconsider the blue quality thing. as most people read this go make a ZA pug and they dont want people like me with blues because blues< purple(when is not true)
As a resto druid, 140 mp5 seems too low, my druid with just kara gear on has about 250-300 mana regen depedning on class makeup. And Prot pallys don’t need quite as much health as warriors, because they take 30% reduced damage while under 30%. I would also suggest having atleast 2-3 CC, i always bring in atleast 1 shadow priest, 1 mage, and usualy another one of either class.
I think the statistics for mages sounds reasonable.
I have everything except the crit%.
30% sounds quite hard to attain.
My spell damage is at +1035 but my crit is only at 23%. I heard that +damage/+haste was more important and was wondering if that makes up for some loss in +crit.
That´s what i was talking about. Getting two of the stats is no biggie, but getting all three above min req seems more or less impossible if counting only t4 and equivalent gear.
Hey just my 2 cents, ima resto druid.In my experience resto druids usally have less +heals then ne other class.I am full epic with ZA,gruuls,kara and some badge,i still only have +1950heals.Where as a priest/pally can get 2100-2200 with relative ease.But cleary my gear is better(statwise)just with less heals
My Paladin is on an active ZA team and I beleive your stats are really low. This is what I run with.
10,000 Health
13,000 Mana
2200 +Healing
25% Crit
205 Mana/5
Even on the bear boss I will burn 2-3 mana pots and still end up drained by the end of the fight. Yet when I go to Hex Lord I cannot even begin to start healing that. But than again it could just be the other two healers that I have coming with me and not myself. But I believe that your stats for a Holy Pally are a bit low.
So many classes seem to recommand an instane amount compared to others here.
a bm hunter for once with 2200ap, well thats pretty damn high.
while a warlock can get 900 spell dmg in t4 (tho t4 is probobly enough)
40% crit fury warr ?
people in bt have abit over 30%crit
only way u can get 40 is with axe specc or alot of crit gems in good gear.
hope the protadins block/parry/dodge combined is with their block ability up
then healers with 1600+healing, puts them in a somewhat lower gear requirement then the hunter/warr. sure things are diffrent but, a paladin in 1600heal isnt much, tho i know i handled za on a 1650heal druid, tho mana as druid rarely matters cause they are usualy high regen
Your tankadin stats are a little off, I think. Any self respecting tanking paladin will have more than 200 spelldamage for *Karazhan*. I hit ~250 unbuffed, and I still have the Continuum Blade (haven’t actually been to ZA, though my guild does do it). With the Arena/H-MgT mace and wizard oil/food/buffs, you should be ~400 unbuffed. Your health value seems about right though.
Also, in terms of avoidance, you want to be counting in terms of pure avoidance, i.e. parry/dodge/miss. I would imagine this value to be ~50%. Including block is pointless, as tankadins must have 102.4% block/dodge/parry/miss with Holy Shield up to be uncrushable anyway (or 72.4% without it up) and extra block rating falls off the attack table.
Hit cap for fury warriors is 9%. 40% crit is too high for unbuffed. If a warrior is buffed sitting at 1800ap, they won’t hit 40% crit buffed. And it all depends on the buffs as well. I sit around 1880ap and 28 crit unbuffed. Fully buffed, i’ll hit around 3000ap and 37% crit easily. But yeah, if you’re basing these stats off of buffed ppl, then lower that crit chance to about the 35% area.
A warrior should have at least 35% combined parry and dodge. Shield block value and rating are less important (as long as it’s high enough to keep your shield slam damage (thus threat) reasonable, shield block will do the rest to make you as uncrushable as you need to be).
Just wanted to say like a couple above, u need to change the stats for a rogue up there cause i have been every spec and like they said a sub rogue can hit that high of attackpower easy but only pop out like half as much as a combat rogue in a dungeon, probably need to put up like 1450 atp req for combate rogue and yea like 1800-2000 for a sub rogue becuase just for going sub u get 30% more atp along with all the other stuff but a combat rogue can hit 2 people at once and have unlimited engergy.
O and to add to that does it really matter how much stamina a rogue has? i only have 8500 but i have 39% doge rating without my trinket or evasion (and when i use evasion i have 105% doge rating for 20sec and a 1.5min cooldown)to go along with the parry and cloak of shadows that makes u resist 90% of fire ice and any kind of spell damage for 10sec and a small cooldown on that.so does it really matter how much health rogues have since they probably wont get an agro anyways if they know how to use faint ?
Spirit Bolts deal 450 shadow damage to nearby enemies every 0.5 sec for 10 seconds. It increases in damage with each Soul Drain.
You almost always get some partial resists so at the start everyone in the raid take about 8K damage. Spirit bolts are cast every 30s so you can’t always cloak of shadows through them. Making sure that you give time to healers to get you up is vital, that’s why you need 8500 health minimum.
Shadow Priests need to be hit capped too.
Sorry, just saw the line about caster DPS. Got confused because Shadow Priests are way at the bottom 🙁
Would just add:
All casters should be getting close to the hitcap..
I play a boomkin with +1191 and +120 hit (boomkins cap at 150), and until I recently swapped gems for hit, you really feel the difference in DPS due to resists.
Nothing like making the ‘locks sweat on the tables. 😉
Wow, i saw maybe 2 postings for lock, anyways, the 8500 mana is way to low, i run around 9500 unbuffed with over 11k buffed, yea we have lifetap but why stress the healers, my suggestions are 11k hp, 10.2 without imp, 10-11k mana, +1000 shadow dmg, and definatly over 150 hit, just my 2 cents on the matter
the stats i raid with-unbuffed
0/40/21
10.5k health with imp out
9800 mana
+1312 shadow damage
176 hit
26% crit
52 haste
all on kara/gruul’s/badges gear
and while i love a boomkin in the raid, lol at making a lock sweat
Hey, I’ve been playing a warlock forever and I thought I should lend a hand.
For an affliction warlock, your mana pool requirements are a bit high, and your health requirements are slightly high.
I’m currently running (unbuffed) with around 7500 mana, and 8000 health. This is with full kara/badge epics. My SD is around 960 unbuffed, and my spell hit is 200ish (varies with gear sets).
Now, it’s easy enough to swap out a few pieces of raiding gear for PvP gear, which is a massive boon to health and mana, but then my spell hit and damage are lowered. People tend to over exaggerate the amount of health warlocks can have. A lot of raiding gear just simply does not have enough +sta and +int to meet these standards.
Lets look at some decent raiding epics for locks.
Weapon: S2 staff or S2 staff + S4 OH: Lots of sta, int, SD, and spell hit. No problems here.
Head: PvP headgear just doesn’t have the spell hit that other pieces do, but has 3 gem slots, including 1 meta, and has a MASSIVE amount of sta for the level of gear. Take a look at the spellstrike hood. Great SD, good crit (still good for affliction, but better for destro), great hit, and a wonderful 3 gem slots. The downside is that the sta and int is lacking. I would still choose the Spellstrike hood over the PvP headgear because of the large amount of dps increase, even at the cost of survivability.
I’m out of time, so I will discuss other gear choices later, but I will end with a quick discussion on destro.
Destro min stats are very harsh… and I’m talking just to spec destro. Most people will not be able to by the time they reach ZA. It is most accepted that a destro lock should have these stats (not including sta and int):
~1000 spell damage
hit capped (much more important for destro then for affliction)
AT LEAST 20% spell crit after talents (25% recommended)
By the time this is obtainable, the sta and int requirements you have stated will be much easier to reach.
And I just wanted to say thanks for the effort you put into making this guide.
i do believe that for a mage that 30% crit rating is completely absurd for ZA. I run SSC and TK with 1050 spell frost dmg and 110 hit rating with 3 points in elemental precision. My crit rating is only 19% unbuffed and 23% buffed and that seems to do me fine. What needs to be made more of a priority is spell hit rating which has a dramatic effect on overall dps and mana economy.
Edit to my last post:
Weapon: S2 staff or S2 *DAGGER* + S4 OH: Lots of sta, int, SD, and spell hit. No problems here.
30% is only for fire mages probably. frost mages need about 7-10% less then that (cause of some frost talent)
Prot paladins dont need as much health as a prot warrior. They got a talent ardent defender where damage taken is reduced by 30% if health is lower then 35% max. health. So I guess about 1k or even up to 10% less health then a prot warrior would be ok.
What is the +hit needed for a shadowpriest?
With/without Shadow Focus if anyone knows..
Surv hunter 2,2k AP? Ahahahahahahahahahahahah
Sry, but noway in kara gear. My surv hunter got 6k mana, 39% crit, and 1750 AP, and he got hit rating capped + 989 unbuffed agi. rly, 2,2k AP is bit high, since u will be only taking agi pots and stuff( and BoK, instead of BoM if u got one pally, or at all). I’d say 1,9-2k would be more like it.
Now that I really think about it, I was forgetting some buffs in my health calculations. With commanding sout, fort, and blood pact, a lock should be pushed well beyond your health minimum. Mana reqs aren’t bad IF you actually have someone that can buff your intellect. Really though, affliction locks dont need a large mana pool.
Ah, I’ve been looking for this! Excellent, once again Matt. Now I know what I am shooting for on my holy priest.
Our first ZA group that I tank for only runs with 2 healers. I think their bonus heals are well over 2000 though.
Tankettes last blog post..SSC, 3 Boss Night
I’m a warlock that tops dps in a group that gets the bear mount regularly.
You DON’T need 3 healers.
We do it with 2 all the time (all 6 bosses) and we beat the 4th timer by about 5 minutes.
This is what i recommend for the group:
2 Tanks:
*Feral Druid (so he can change gear for dps on every boss other than halazzi and nalorakk, and act as a 7th dps.
*Prot Pally (SUPER important since jan’a’lai can be killed much faster when you can clear an entire side of eggs at a time, plus aoe is huge in the gauntlet to akilzon and for speed runs)
6 DPS:
1 Spriest (put it in the dps caster group for a 4 timer run to avoid having downtime)
1 Ele Shaman (put in dps caster group for spell dmg totems and heroism; interrupts on hexlord)
1 Destro Warlock (AoE #1)
2 Fire Mages (AoE #2 and 3, spell steals buffs off flame casters and hexlord)
1 Hunter (phase 3 zul’jin dps, misdirect, totem killer)
2 L33t Healers: (T6 healers in our group)
1 Resto Shaman: (Heroism for tank group/hunter, chain heals for hexlord)
1 Resto Druid: In tank group/hunter group heals.
Group heals are huge here, the shaman should be casting chain healz off of the mt.
Good luck guys!
Drool. I want that bear mount. Badly.
Tankettes last blog post..Gius goes to Kara
People don’t seem to understand what the word minimum means.
Matticuss last blog post..Dear Matt, What Should I Look for in Joining a Guild?
There was one comment that caught my eye.
Id also be impressed if a duel wielding enhancement shaman could get hit capped on badges and kara gear alone. Same with rogues. Do you know how much they need to be hit capped? Its something like 29% i believe, maybe 25%”
Very untrue. My husband is a Rogue and we have only been to Kara, he only has two badge items and his hit is nearly capped at 297. If you are a Rogue curious about how he did it, his name is Flare on Echo Isles.
The problem is many people don’t even bother with hit. They want their other stats instead. If you are missing most of the time, all those nice stats mean nothing.
Also, if these is raid buffed, I think you should have put it in the top of the post (unless you did and I’m just missing it) Also, these seem more like recommended-ish than minimum, then again, I’m thinking the beginning of ZA than a full clear. Still a decent list.
Shadowpriest stats are kind of off I’d say. As others said the listed HP requirement is pretty high. Sure, having lots of it helps but it is really hard to get considering that Kara geared SP has five really low stamina pieces if it wants to be any good (SS + FSW set), six when he does belt of blasting too that has zero stamina. Only when I started getting a few pieces from ZA I could get anywhere near 9k raid-buffed.
Great guide. But I too think taht 17k may be a bit high for paladin tanks. In my experiance, since tankadins are the only class that has to consiously worry about uncrushable, stacking stam is less and less of an option.
Even 15.5-16k Hp would be more reasonable. IMO
Pally Bonus Heal (UNBUFFED) should be in the 1800 range for things to go smoothly.
For 2 healers: Pally HB (unbuffed) should be in the 2000 range.
I agree with the MP5 stats, and the Crit% as written.
With buffs, these stats will improve healbonus, and the rest.
Sorry if I somehow missed an answer/reply to this in one of the comments, I didn’t read all of them –
Do NOT group BM and MM Hunter reqs together.. you should run a damage/DPS meter during ZA runs of EXPERIENCED BUT NOT OVERGEARED players, record DPS, and update that on here.
For Hunters you should further break that down by spec and shot rotation.
I’m a BM hunter with 1.6k AP. (~1.5 unbuffed, 1.6 on average considering I don’t get buffs all the time) I started going on my guild’s (T4-T5) ZA runs when I was still in half blues and had only 1.4k AP or so buffed, yet I was still topping the damage charts if not avg DPS. And still do. Since hitting 70 I’ve always been running in raids that -according to Armory and guides- I should not be ready for. My guild isn’t carrying me, and I’m one of the guild’s top DPS right now. I know this is probably hard to incorporate into a guide, but you should place heavier emphasis on player skill. (as opposed to experience) Which is almost always neglected when pug groups are LFM, and why I rarely pug. I’d like to shed some light on this if possible. This is my first and only lvl 70.
I don’t have much to say about the other classes since I don’t have experience in them and haven’t researched the stats, but you don’t need 3 healers to do well. My guild isn’t overgeared for ZA (most, like me, are in Kara/Badge/Crafted) but we almost always run with 2 healers.
About the BM/MM hunter thing, that does seem a little unrealistic… for example my hunter is in full 4/8 T6 and all BT/Hyjal gear, and I barely hit 2200 self-buffed… Now if your considering raid buffed, you would need a paladin (kings, might) and all the normal buffs i can scratch at 2600-2700 but the avg. kara/t4-t5 geared hunter is going to have about 1800 ap which will have it so they cannot reach the 2200 base requisite.. I would say the base for a t4-t5 hunter would be around 2000 buffed, and a Marksman hunter around 2300 buffed.. (not really good to choose a MM hunter for dps though. :\
also really good to have the Shadow Priest dps have some hit… when one of their shadow word pains/ vampric touch resists that a big hit to their mana, Shadow priests are mana intensive as it is, and even with the 10% base (if they specced right) +hit they will probably need about 70-80 more… this is easily attainable sience i have a shadow priest in kara gear with 92 hit…
I would say the group dynamic that you have chosen is the most important thing to have for a group farming Kara with badge gear here and there but no real 25 man raid gear.
I see everyone here getting on you about how easy ZA can be in all this great T6 gear (ZA is easy with two healers T6 geared). Too bad this guide isn’t for those kinda groups.
I went in ZA this last weekend with a group almost exact to your group make up but probably significantly under those stats. At least two of us if not more, myself the healy priest included, are not fully kara/badge gear with the rest of the group close to that.
We’re not trying to finish ZA but trying to learn the fights and we downed the Eagle and Bear boss for the first time.
With your edits I would say the numbers look good as a buffed starting GUIDELINE and anything close to these numbers will result in success.
ps My main is a BM hunter and I will not have the same AP as a MM, the talents don’t allow it. Gear might change that but then I sacrifice my spec specific stats that are more important than matching MM/Surv stats.
I’m assuming that Matticus!’s intention when creating this Forum was not to have every player that’s been through ZA or the pertaining to tell us all your awesome stats. These are MINIMUMS. If you do not believe that Matticus! has them figured correctly, I’m sure he’d appreciate some advice/input. Ya can’t knock the guy for not knowing everything about all 9 classes and their 3 widely varrying tallent trees. I’d like to say TY Matticus! for your contribution.
That being said, there seems to be a lot of banter about a few things I’d like to put 2 cents on.
Locks: As destro, your +hit rating is your most important stat you can gather. Your cap is +202 (correct me if I’m wrong here) and this will be a very hard number to reach before ZA, but many have done it before. This is why most locks stay Affliction in Kara and work towards the lofty but necessary hit rating required. Resists will kill your DPS and mana pool causing you to life tap more often and puts you in position of easily being wipped by an AOE effect. It will also strain the healers a little more (no biggie, that’s what they’re there for 🙂 I love me a healer!) You miss more, the fight goes on longer, you have to life tap more, the healers are in the position where they will need to heal you more…. ya dig? Get to the Hit Cap and work on perfecting your +Crit and +Spell Dmg afterwards. You will be amazed how much more damage you will do with +Hit. I can’t think of a class that needs +hit more than a Destro Lock to maintain solid DPS (rouges are about on the same parallel of dependency of +hit as well because their Hit Cap is also very high), and Destro Locks are viably the biggest powerhouses in 10-man content.
Enhancement Shamans: Your gearing as one-hundred times more to do with your ability to DPS than your stats. I just simply see too many enh shams with two fast daggers instead of TWO (that is “2” the number and is similar to using the word “BOTH”) slow, hard-hitting weapons. Once you’ve got that very easy and basic know-how out of the way, I’d advise to aspire to reach the suggested stats above.
Matticus!:
I have a few suggestions for base, raid-buffed stat requirements for enhancement shamans, which are as follows:
-Mana: Since we are assuming these are raid-buffed stats, I would advise enh shamans to have no less that 7,000 mana to do any raid. If an enh. shaman is in the right grp and doing his/her job, they will use a lot of mana twisting WF totem (for rouges and warriors) in and out with thier agil totem every 9 seconds. Approximately half of the damage output from an enhancement shaman requires the use of mana, which will also deplete that mana pool right quick like. Now, throw in the fact that even enh shamans have to throw the occasional heal, 6,000 mana will usually fall short. Still, 7,000 mana goes fast, but it can easily be made up with your Shamanistic Rage. Were this not a raid-buffed stat, 6,00-6,250 might work out as a “base” suggestion. I’d say closer to 7,000 mana when ready to roll into a boss.
-Hit: 9% is really just to low for enh shamans. 9% is obtainable just from your tallent spec!! This is a MUST HAVE! I’d say, after some Kara and Badge gear and the correct tallent spec, the very minimum should be 12%. No less. This is very easy to obtain, shammies.
Hope this finds you all in good favor.
Best,
Striffe
The reason health is so high, from what I understand, is because of the AoE effects and adds in there.. like the dragonhawk boss, etc.
“BM/MM
Health: ~9500+
Mana: 6500+
AP: 2200+
Hit: Capped
Crit: 20%+”
That’s a bit too much, eh.
~9000 health average.
~6000-7000 mana.
~hit capped.
~crit 20%++.
However.
~AP: 1650-2100.
That’s more realistic.
And for Survival..
~agility 750+
Not sure where you pulled out 950.. probably your ass.
These are stats you should have for a T6 environment…
the BM hunter being at 2200 ap is kinda way way high for sure. most BM hunters i see have a max of like 1500ap. my MM hunter gets to about 2400ap with might and kings, but i dont think ive ever seen a BM hunter get beyond 2k
@ Jalis
im planning to respec to survival and im wondering how you achieve 1000 agility raid buffed….i did a little math and all i got was 850. Can i get any help?
As a shadow priest just entering kara i was at 101 hit rating and 901 shadowdamage self buffed my health is quite a bit lower than mentioned but with the numerous great stam gear in kara there is no reason to be below 1000 damage and hit capped by end of kara and you will have probably taken points out of shadow focus and put else where. This hit cap was mainly due to Belt of Blasting, Spellstrike Set and full Frozen Shadoweave set with a decent MH dagger and Oh whatever. So basically if your a shadow priest asking what is my hit cap you shouldn’t even think about ZA.
Thanks for the informative post, heaps of people claiming ” way too high ” or ” way too low ” but at the end of the day it’s meant as a guide only and will always be open to other peoples interpretations. I have no idea regarding other classes but as a holy pally with 1753 unbuffed it’s very much appreciated.
Level 70 tank in a mix of Karazhan purples and IoQ badge gear my passive avoidance is well over 60%. I was exactly 70% for a while before I moved some of my gear budget from avoidance into stamina for T5 raiding. And that while maintaining 18k health 10-man raid buffed, no consumables. Not hard at all if you gear right.
I have heard several people ask for kitty druid stats. Almost every1 you ask will laugh if you brought a dps druid in a ZA run. I have yet to find another druid that can dps worth a S**t. But i can pull 900 dps easy in 10 mans and have lead dps charts in ssc tk my kitty gear stats are: 3441 AP 40.62% crit 10700 hp 67 hit rating (which is very low) using mostly badge gear 2 piece t4 1 t5 item.
The proper way to dps as feral is to mangle once shred till a min of 4 points then rip always refresh mangle but never use it more then you have to mangle will grant 30% more dmg for shred and rip, only ferocious bite if mob will not live till rip would have been completed. the reason for using finishing move at 4 points is because if you crit on last that extra combo point is waisted and the amount of dmg lost from using 4 versus 5 points is neglegable good luck druids
Druidestine Frostmane
Resto druids have lowest +heal of all healing classes. Priests have 25%spirit=+heal, shamans 30%int=+heal and pallys 38,5%int=+heal from talents. Eq druid in same level of gear with pally will have ~200 lower +heal. because of that +heal requirements cant be 1600 for all healers. imo its ~1550 druid, ~1650 priest and shammy, 1700 pally.
When my Hunter was specced BM and we had ZA on farm, I had around 1600 AP unbuffed. I was always either #1 or #2 on DPS and damage dealt meters (when pet was included) and we were clearing the 4 animal bosses in under 30 minutes without taking shortcuts, so it’s not like we were having difficulty or taking a long time to down bosses.
I don’t remember how much HP I had when I first entered ZA, but I’m pretty sure it was somewhere between 8k and 9k and we didn’t have all that much trouble with the animal bosses. As long as the Hunter pays attention and avoid unnecessary damage (the hurricane/thunder storm), being in the 8k-9k area is enough for the animal bosses, but this is from the DPSer’s point of view (it might’ve been a bit stressful for the healers, but they didn’t really fuss over it at all).
You probably just made all that up, 40% crit for warriors, that made my day, stupid noob.
Ouch. Yeah, I totally pulled all of these numbers out of thin air.
As Moo-x said, druids dont need as much bonus healing as the other healers. I would however reccomend a lot more Mp5 while casting, closer to 200-250.
eee 40% critt haha no dont think so. 😛 and 1800 ap is a bit high 😛 i started go kara with 1700. if u check a bt geared fury warr dont have 40 % maybe 31% 😛
Apart from the health, the min stats you list are more bt/hyjal stats for a bear tank.
40-42% dodge is likely excessive for starting ZA (my bear has 43 but yeh, 4 pc t6 etc). As buffed stats proberly about right, mebbe a bit high still. 30k armor sounds about right.
And kek, 65% buffed dodge in what gear? I’ve had a few people say “omgz my m8 haz liek 55% unbuff dodge in hiz gears ololool” *armory – 32%* etc. To get your dodge up that high is serious endgame gear, by that stage you probably dont need anything but sunwell. Dont get me wrong, oh shit trinkets get you up to 80%, but yeh.
And ‘omgz that much dodge, most R crushes!!’. Aye, but you’re only getting hit 30% of the time, so a 10k crush every n seconds is still less damage than taking another swath of non crushes. I’ve lasted ridiculous lengths of times without a heal with all my trinkets/idols activated. A bears shield wall :p.
Both Prot pallies and warriors should have AT LEAST 102.4% block/dodge/parry/miss (avoidance) with holyshield/shieldblock active. This is what makes you uncrushable.
As to the Mage guidlines:
Mage
Health: ~9000+
Mana: 9000
Spell damage: 900+
Crit: 30%
I presume that you mean talented crit in your chosen spell school. My fire mage has a base of 19.7% crit but in fire is 29.7%. He has one piece of crafted gear (spellstrike hood) and the ZA chest cape. Otherwise all his gear is either rep rewards, kara or heroic. Gems are blues. He is hit capped and has most of the desirable enchants. His unbuffed stats are:
Health: 7500+
Mana: 8800+
Spell damage (when hit capped) 956
Crit (with Molten armor) 19.7%
HIs buffed heath and mana generally exceed your minimums and I usually raid with Sup wiz oil, spell food, and elixirs. I use the scryers blood gem to hit cap so I have at least one blue.
I have no problem with your basic numbers, but want to point out that because they are buffed values they are pretty easily reached without badge gear provided you gem and enchant wisely.
Hey man
Like the guide, its great. I just had a little problem with the hunters though.
I have a BM hunter in kara/badge gear with 26% crit, 1850 AP, and 142 hit (capped) that can pull of over 1k dps easily with raid buffs and flasks. So in order to help you out, I’ll put down what I believe to be the minimum stats you [should] have for ZA for hunters so you could be able to replace what you have written.
BM-
1800 AP
24% crit (at least)
As BM (and for any hunter for that matter) you should be hit capped, it really is your primary stat to aim for if you don’t have it capped yet.
MM-
2100+ AP
24% crit (not sure on that)
Hit capped
SV-
1800-1900 AP (not sure either, never gone SV)
30% crit (at least)
850+ Agility, this is crucial, and its probably not even a good idea to take an SV hunter over another dps since you won’t get a good amount of added raid dps due to only a few physical dpsers in ZA. (SV hunter don’t flame me xD)
As for health and mana I don’t see how a hunter with those kind of stats cannot have at least 9k health and 6.5k mana minimum.
Hope this info kinda helps, anyone else feel free to comment and fix the MM or SV section, but I think the BM stats are dead on =)
For BM hunter my unbuffed specs (does include AoH):
9868 health
7153 mana
1889 AP
122 hit (will reach about 130 or so when I gem the new legs)
26.48% crit
Raid buffed I hit about:
11k health
7500 mana
2100 to about 2200+ AP depending on buffs
and about 30% crit (35% if I can get leader of the pack).
The gear is a mix of PVP, T4/Kara, T5 (gloves), rep gear and Trollbane from ZA.
I’m still working on the T5 helm and badge ring to round out some of the numbers. I do have all of the good enchants, but some of my gems could be better. I believe this is realistic gear to have post Kara (not the T5 gloves, but the badge gloves are slightly better stats albeit without the chance for a set bonus).
You won’t have all of the badge gear by the time you get the Kara/Gruuls/Mags gear but keep running it and heroics for those badges.
Armory here:
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Sentinels&n=Asesinonoche
Great guide Matticus. You put in your own knowledge/experience where you could and left the door open for constructive criticism to help round out what numbers are possible for the other classes. Too bad some rude Trolls found their way here.
ZA http://tinyurl.com/yw2r23
Pally tanks need about 5.5k mana, 1600 health, 102.4% dodge/parry/block, 510 def. And you’re going to REALLY want more than 200+ spell damage… bump up the min to 250.
Also, for every tank, dodge is the most desirable avoidance to work on, as it mitigates the most damage.
fury wars…33% crit is always the standard but idk full kara 35 or so% would probably be possible, 40% is very high still, and as much hit as possible is nice (though don’t gem it..yellow cap is enough but more is always good)
also read people it says buffed stats……
so 11k health is easy..my fury war has 2 kara epics and the rest high 60s greens/blues (i just dinged) and i hit 11k fully buffed.
and 28% crit fully buffed in the same gear.
these numbers do look like T6, whoever said that
very sorry but I am holy pally that has main healed Kara several times and I can’t see anyway to get my + heals up to your specifications
as for skill I healed a tank through 30 mins of the new boss in Kara
I have been holy spec for over a year now and have all my kara gear except for mace off of prince any idea where I should go to ??
Pally tanks need about 5.5k mana, 1600 health, 102.4% dodge/parry/block, 510 def. And you’re going to REALLY want more than 200+ spell damage.
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