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I was relaxing on my vent server last night after watching the Stanley Cup Finals. Moments later, a friend storms onto vent and I could immediately tell he was frustrated.
“My raid leader is stupid!“, he vents.
“Slow down! What happened? Aren’t you supposed to be raiding?” I ask.
“Yeah. But the idiot cancelled the raid because there weren’t enough guildies on for a full guild run.” He explained, “22 people in raid are from the guild. Two of them are friends or alts in other progressed guilds, the other is a trial and he wanted the entire raid to consist of the guild only.”
That is bad thing to do. It seemed the raid leader wanted to have exclusive Guildies only. Even though he had enough players to field a whole raid he chose to bag it instead. What happens now? You have over 20 pissed off players who were generous enough to have cleared their whole evening for a night of raiding. This kind of short sighted behavior is bad for a raiding guild. People who join raiding guilds are in it because they want to do one thing only: they want to raid. It’s a simple concept and it still surprises me that some Guild leaders out there do not understand that raiding guilds that don’t raid aren’t considered raiding guilds.
That mantra sounds familiar doesn’t it?
“Bloggers that don’t blog aren’t bloggers.”
Was he worried about loot? Maybe by introducing foreign players into a raid, the loot rules would have to be explained and rendered fair for them have a shot at said loot. I can understand Guildies getting upset if their loot system becomes suspended for a day because of the fact that there are 3rd party players in the raid.
For Carnage, I’ve cultivated a working and professional relationship with numerous other Guilds that are slightly below our level for progression. It works because of 3 reasons:
- We get an extra set of hands in case we can’t field a full team.
- They get the necessary experience to share with their Guild on what to expect when they reach our level.
- Loot that isn’t needed by us is looted to them free of charge.
For Guilds that are on the same level of progression, consider incorporating your friends into your loot system, whatever it may be. If it’s DKP, allow them to earn it. Whatever you do make sure you explain to them beforehand what the rules are and what they’re eligible to get. Make it known that while it’s possible for them to get loot, it is not guaranteed.
I can’t say I understand his motives but I was in a similar situation in Carnage nearly a year ago where there were days that the Guild was unable to raid because of attendance issues. I made it known to the officers at that time that I play this game to raid. If this organization doesn’t plan on doing that then maybe I’m in the wrong Guild. I gave them a 3 week grace period to get things together and we were able to get the raiding machine going.
So how do you know when to kill raids?
When to kill raids
- Not enough players to at least fill half the raid – Especially on a raiding night when most Guilds are busy, it’s going to be tough to find reliable people to fill in the other half.
- Not enough roles filled – Not a tank in sight? Unless you have some contacts, it’s best to just bag it and call it a night if you don’t have an ETA on when your tanks or healers will be around.
- Thirty minute rule – This is a rule borrowed from the unwritten college and university level. If the professor doesn’t show up within the first 10 minutes of class and there’s no notification as to when he is expected to show, I am free to leave. In this case, if you’re still short a substantial amount of people after 30 minutes, give the players on the rest of the night off.
Alternative activities
Can’t get the raid going? Not all is lost. Here’s a few other things you can do to make the best of a bad situation.
- Knock out dailies and farm – Stock pile a bit of hard currency. Gold is always nice to have. Do a bit of farming and get some raw materials handy for your consumables for the next scheduled raid.
- Do some PvP – What’s the point of having all these awesome weapons and no one to use it on? Hit up some battlegrounds and have some fun! Organize a premade with a few of your other Guildies and get the daily BG out of the way.
- Work on your alts – My main is an enchanting/tailor, my secondary is a mining/herber, my tertiary alt is a blacksmithing/alchemist, and I’m levelling a jewelcrafting/engineer. It pays off to be self sufficient.
- Go outside – Summer is here after all. Catch up on some reading outdoors. Play a bit of soccer (or street hockey) with your friends.
I don’t like having non-guildies in our raids. It is like being in the World Series and having new players pulled up from a farm club and added into the starting team.
I’d rather not raid than have non-guildies. But then our guild has over 100 level 70’s so if we cant get a solid 25 man team there is something wrong. If a raid gets cancelled I want the people that didn’t show up to feel some guilt and hopefully show up next time.
Alts of guildies aren’t so bad. Typically they bring in an overgeared toon from a more advanced guild.
Summer isn’t too great in Seattle – rain and gloom recently, so it’s almost not worth going…
i come from a server with a very small horde population and pretty much witnessed first hand how the “guild only” raid rule trashes guilds trying to RAID!
Not sure where this originates from? maybe large population alliance servers with so many people trying to raid you have to beat them off with a stick?
Anyway matt, i think your right-on completely about the short sightedness of that attitude. especially on low pop servers where every raider counts regardless of guild affiliation 😛
I still always find it odd when people demand that only guildies can raid together. It’s such an anathema, especially on Feathermoon US where many raids are actually comprised of individuals of differing guilds. My priest’s 25-man raid group is from everywhere while my hunter’s 25-man group has a core of people from a guild but they understand that sometimes the best players from the job aren’t the ones wearing your guild tag.
Though that doesn’t keep them from making the occasional offer to get those people into their tags!
@tankette, whether or not to call a raid due to lack of people is a judgment call, but I think Matticus does a fairly good job of differentiating between when to fill the slots via any means necessary and when to just call it. In the case mentioned here, this was a good night to run the raid with a few extras and leave a nasty message on the forums for the no-shows.
Most people in raiding guilds are there because they really love to raid, and most of them won’t care if it’s not the A-team, all guildies, or whatever. As long as it has a shot at being successful, they’ll be there. Calling a viable raid because it can’t be filled with guild members will piss off far more of the membership base than those it satisfies. Besides, you never know what outside talent might decide they really enjoyed raiding with you and apply to be in your guild.
One thing left out…this is a new guild on the server and having 22 people on at one time is good. Poor choice to call the raid imo 🙂
Actually the raid consisted of 22 guild members, 1 app, and 2 friends. I just wanted to raid :'(
PUGs deserve an equal shot at loot. Not a “you get loot if we don’t need it.”
Then again, I suppose if you explain everything to them ahead of time and they agree to it then that’s ok too.
Whenever we PUG in my guild I make sure they know that all things being equal they have as much a right to the loot as a guildy.
That said, we’re just doing 10 mans. I understand 25 man loot complicates things.
But the overall point is–you wouldn’t be raiding that night if it weren’t for the PUGs. So they are deserving.
We ran a quick ZA last night pugging 3 spots. One of them got loot. Grats to them!
I don’t really worry about loot.
I guess I would have a different perspective about using non guildies if our guild was smaller and that is what it took to get a raid going on a regular basis. Our typical 25 man raids have 35 people wanting in so when we have a night with only 20 or so wanting to raid it baffles me. We just changed some of our guild rules that basically requires our “raid elites” to be in the progression raids every Tues and Thurs or else get bumped down in status. So far this has really helped fielding a solid 25 man team. It is a tough thing to balance “casual” with progression.
@Curtis, I see where you are coming from and I am torn. My guild currently lets all pugs roll on gear if we bring them in. The flip side is that I have seen many a raid go by where the pugs walk away with all the T5 tokens. Its fair to the pugs but discouraging to the core raiders.