Your requests have been heard and I am here to deliver. I’ve received repeated emails for minimum Naxx requirements for both 10s and 25s. Unlike the Kara or ZA guides I wrote, this one will be much more brief. I won’t be able to give precise numbers for stats or anything like before due to radical buff changes in raiding. I spent a lot of time writing, re-writing and scrapping this post repeatedly because it’s extremely difficult to pen this. Here’s what you should shoot for.
Before you even read the numbers, you should consult Anna’s blog: Am I Ready to Heal Naxx?
Note: These numbers are good for both Naxx 10 and 25.
Note 2: Your mileage may very. Experiment with different raid combinations to find out what works best.
Tanks
Health: 25000 unbuffed
Defense: 540 (Crit immunity)
Note: Druids will have a higher health pool. 30000 health is a good number to aim for.
Melee DPS
Hit: 9%
DPS output on average: 2000 DPS
Obviously the more the merrier.
Caster DPS
Hit: 17%
DPS output on average: 2000 DPS
Note: Both percentages assume you are completely naked and lacking in hit-increasing buffs. You can find your hit percentage by mousing over the hit rating on your character screen.
Healers
Spellpower: 1550
Mana regeneration: 700 (is what I was able to get away with)
Paladins mana regeneration: around 200 with 25% crit is a good start
Shamans may have slightly lower mana regen.
Treat these as guidelines! Use your discretion. If you can handle a few heroics under your belt, then you’re ready to give Naxx a shot! Don’t expect to be killing Kel’Thuzad or anything right away. Know your limits.
Regarding Holy Paladin mana regen:
Spell Crit: 30% (excluding Sanctified Light)
Seal of Wisdom up at all times in conjunction with Glyph of Seal of Wisdom
Divine Plea – any time your mana approaches 75-80%
kyrileans last blog post..Stupid ways to die in Naxx…
Yeah – Holy Paladins aren’t going to be using mp/5, but having around 28-30% crit will be the equivalent, especially if you’re actively using Divine Plea.
“Know your limits.”
I can’ t stress how important this is. A lot of “smallish” guilds need to realize that just because there is a 10 man Naxx now doesn’t mean things will be a walk in the park the first time you set foot in there. Raids still take skill and effort to be successful. Thats why “guidelines” exist…they aren’t a hard rule but you need to be more then just level 80 to raid.
If you don’t meet the numbers you are shooting for, realize that you can supplement with food/flasks for just about any stat in the game now.
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Actually, more up to date research suggests the melee hit cap to be 8 rather than 9 % (true for hunters as well). Discussion to be found here: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t37856-melee_hit_cap_really_9_a/
Also, note that man (most?) classes have access to hit from talents, which will not be reflected in the character sheet tooltip, and trying to stack that much hit is just asking for trouble for most.
I’m a holy pally, and I’ve been in several 10 man Naxx’s and one highly profitable 25 man. At this point I’m in almost all purples, and I sure as hell don’t have 1700 sp. 1500 maybe (I can’t check, blargh @ work), but not 1700. I certainly STARTED Naxx with a lot less.
The rest of your numbers are alright for holy pallys, but not that!
And yes, we do still use mp5. 😛
Ambrosines last blog post..PvE Holy Paladin Guide for the Math Wary
Ambrosine: I also started Naxx with less. I dove in with a little under 1600. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you were very confident in yourself and your abilities. Please note that when I say your mileage may vary, treat these as guidelines, and experiment, I actually do mean that.
Paladin gearing is…interesting? Right now. And I had no idea what I had going into Naxx. I went to some heroics that looked like they had shiny things and even got some of them. Then my guild said “You! Get!” and I said “Okay!” and things died and they gave me purples and good times were had.
I like that you have 200 mp5 up there, as I’ve gotten too many reports of paladins with OMGCRIT and…30 mp5.
…?
/sigh
Nonononono!
What is this lack of love for Flash of Light? 🙁
Ambrosines last blog post..PvE Holy Paladin Guide for the Math Wary
1700 spell power for a healer entering naxx may be high. I think I started out at 1200-1300 spell power with maybe 250 mp5 as a druid and I think that was the bear *ha! get it* minimum. Spider and Plague wings weren’t difficult for CoH priest, a pally wearing cloth, and myself to heal through…and our tanks were sporting 27k hp fully buffed.
Having 1700 buffed to complete a naxx clear would be reasonable.
Plus have a flask of frost wyrm and great feast will increase your spell power by almost 200 points.
When you say 700 mana regeneration, is that while casting or while not casting?
Just so I aim for the right thing… 🙂
Luckily I actually noted down the stats I started Naxx with on my Shammy *rifles*
* Healing: 1545
* Mana: 15.9k
* Mp5: 358 (whilst casting)
* Haste: 137
* Crit: 20.55
Unbuffed – no totems etc. but with water shield.
This was pretty reasonable and I only had a little trouble with lack of regen on Patchie 🙂 I would reccomend a slightly higher +healing to any new shammies heading in and to work on boosting your mana pool a little more swiftly rather than just mp5 if you’re likely to have full-time replenishment in your raid.
To note – I glyph for and utilise the LHW glyph as we run with lots of holy priests. For those who know they will be the AoE healer of choice you might want to slough off some crit in favour of haste if your mana and available gear allows 🙂
/hug
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Aurik: Thanks, I’ll reflect your notes accordingly.
As a Disc Priest i’ve started Naxx 10 with 1300 sp and 650 O5SR (about 220ish MP5) mana regen (unbuffed). We’ve only started on the Spider wing, but other than when Maexxna enrages I never felt under geared (not 100% sure more healing will win this fight anyway).
By this, “Both percentages assume you are completely naked…” I assume you mean wearing gear but unbuffed?
BobTurkey: Yes. I guess I wasn’t quite clear enough.
I came in pretty well geared from heroics tailoring and badges as a holy priest. think it was about 1600. We are careful to keep a ret pally, a shadow priest, or a survival hunter in raid to help with the mana regen. *its a huge help, I have no mana issues*
I want to say my regen was in the about 500 ish range at start.
I packed a large mana pool and as much crit as I could find, even blowing off the whispcloak and taking deathchill *haste and crit mmm*
The key was in playstyle. Pom = 6 targets 20% crit = free holy consentration or surge of light, quick coh another six targets for a crit, bam surge of light or a free greater heal. it adds up. sure you will want a pile of mp5 or spirit if you are just chucking out COH and aren’t utilizing the procs. An addon called “thankgod” from curse.com helps alot with that.
I have zero mana issues, and I really think that people are undervaluing crit for deep holy priests in their gear and valuing of.
On my resto druid I was sporting 250mp5 while casting and around 1600 buffed for my first 10 man naxx. Though I did my first h naxx with ~1350 spirit and <2300 sp (with shaman totems) and easily,easily did it. Of course, you could probably hit up h naxx with 1700 unbuffed and around 1.1k spirit unbuffed.
Honestly Naxx10 felt like a 10man heroic to me, I went in after replacing most of my 70 epics with heroic gear and although I was feeling the bite of regen and my guild’s dps was abysmal (people around 1500dps… woot woot new 80s) we managed to clear 3 wings of naxx on the first day (constrained by time). Patchwerk was difficult because we had 2 healers and we were both running out of mana really fast. Fortunately, innervate is awesome and we squeezed by (course I also flasked, ate food, GSed and used my old spirit trinket with inner focus and hymn of hope, potted, etc). I don’t remember any other fights taxing my mana regen to that extent.
Overall, I think as long as you have experience healing, you’ll be fine (if a little hard pressed) with 1400 sp (not sure about the regen) BUT you’ll need to eat consumables and know how to play the 5sr because regen as a fresh 80 priest was terrible. Your raid will also need to not take massive damage from silly things (like thaddius and grobbulus).
As this is a guide that reflects all roles it might be nice if you changed Melee DPS to Melee DPS & Hunters since we don’ t fit into the Caster DPS equation with the 17% hit requirement.
Between 8-9% hit is certainly adequate – doesn’t need to be 9% precisely. Certainly agree with the 2000 DPS on average – in our raid we require >2k as the minimum performance for DPS.
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I’d agree with the healer numbers…but also question, is your 700 mana regen in FSR or out of it?
With all the best buffs last night (Fort, Int, MoTW, Wisdom, Kings) and mana regen food (alas, no shammy totems) I was riding around 1968 sp and about 900-something mana regen out of FSR and 400 in it. I haven’t generally had problems with this as long as I’m good about when and how to use my mana gaining abilities. I suppose always running with a ret pally helps.
Of course, you could try out healing Grobbulus like I did…be leveling your unarmed skill right before the raid and then realize after the first wipe that you never put your mace back on!!! :O (When I looked at my sp and it was 1568 I knew something was wrong LOL).
Aurik,
I play a shaman as well (Wilgototem on Kilrogg-US) and what I noticed going into Naxx was my mana pool sucked. Your mana pool is too low as well.
You should be stacking Intellect.
See below taken from Elitist Jerks:
Although no stat weights are currently available, many shaman will probably be stacking Intellect (at least for early content through 25-man Naxx)
1) Ancestral Knowledge (AK) now affects Intellect so each point of Intellect is really 1.1
2) Shaman now have talents that boost crits or proc on crits
3) Nature’s Blessing converts up to 15% of your Intellect into Spellpower
4) Mana restored from Mana Tide is based on your maximum mana
5) Replenishment is based on your maximum mana
10 Intellect = 6 mp5 if you have a 5-minute fight with Mana Tide and 100% uptime from Replenishment.
10 Intellect also gives 3.3 crit rating and 1.8 spell power
Intellect gives mana from three different sources. Four if you include inproved water shield procs.
1. Initial mana pool. +18mana.
2. Replenish. 0.225mp5
3. Mana tide. 4.32mana per use.
Anyways once I got my Intellect up and my mana pool closer to 20k, it was EZMODE. Hope this helps.
Couldnt edit my post but I was wrong on base mana pool. Mana pool of 20k or more is based on BUFFED, not unbuffed. Sorry for the mistake.
Stacking Intellect is still the way to go for shammys.
Damn, mispot. Sorry about that Matt. Could you delete my first post? Anyways, here goes:
Those are good guidelines for beginning priests. I would dare to say that lower stats would be acceptable to start Naxx but the player will have to climb notably by the end of Naxx. Still, one can surpass these stats easily by:
– gearing properly with dungeon and quest blue’s while leveling
– using some cheap tailoring blue’s or buying a few BoE blue’s
– echanting this gear with cheap enchants
This can be accomplished by a newly dinged 80 in a few days so it should be acceptable to demand such stats.
Second edit, haha. Shaman info again. My mana pool unbuffed is >20k now but Im pretty much geared. I think I had to get it to around 18k to be comfortable with longer fights in Naxx.
Hi Matticus, your hit cap for melee is a little off. The new cap is 8%.
Here is what my stats where as a disc priest my first time into Naxx:
~1330 sp, 14.3k hp, 17.6k mana, and about 180mp5 unbuffed. my buffed stats were ~1600 sp, 19k health, 20k mana, and about 200mp5. Was able to do the first 2 wings of a Naxx 25 pug fairly comfortably and downed 5 bosses with my guild in Naxx 10. I have noticed that given the exact same gear a holy priest has roughly 100-200 more sp than a disc priest due to talents
“DPS output on average: 2000 DPS”
Difference in 10 vs 25-man is huge. E.g my spriest does ~4k in 25-man but is quite lucky to get >3k in 10-man. Also I hope you mean only bossfights. Several classes behave differently on trash and single-target.
“Both percentages assume you are completely naked and lacking in hit-increasing buffs”
For dps I assume you don’t mean unbuffed dps on target dummy. My spriest did ~2.3k self-buffed on dummy while doing >4k on patchwerk in same gear. Now in half 25-man epics I’m doing 2.5k on dummy and should be capable of 4.5k on patchwerk.
I assume this means 17% with all the talents+raidbuffs (if you are guaranteed to have shadowpriest or boomkin in raid) + gear. Most casters need to get 11% spellhit from gear, 3% comes from talents + 3% from boomkin/spriest. If you have draenei in group then they will give +1%. There is also some temporary things that can increase hit.
Also, being hit-capped is not 100% mandatory for DPS, certainly not anyhere near as important as crit-immune for tanks. Only thing that happens when you are not hitcapped is some of your spells miss -> lower DPS. There is zero reason to use an item with 40 hit/40 spellpower if you can get something with 40 spellpower/40 crit/40 haste.
@HoHo: There are certain things players can get away with. While being hit capped isn’t a requirement and is most certainly impossible to get while breaking into raiding, it’s a goal that most players can and should work toward.
I completely agree with that, being hitcapped will mean higher DPS. Though making that #1 priority is not always the best thing. Also the reason why I brought the subject up in the first place was that it was quite difficult to understand what exactly did you mean in the original post. From the wording it seemed to me as you suggested they should get 17% from gear and that is obviously wrong.
@ Wilgo: You cannot judge what I do or do not stack based on those numbers – they were what I had on my gear, two weeks after release when I started raiding. I do stack int and I did then but there was simply not enough on my gear / gems to make my mana pool much bigger. I even said, in my post, that shammies should go straight for boosting their mana pool.
I have more than 20k mana now, too, and yes it’s easier but I doubt many will get those sorts of number pre-naxx and this was ostensibly a post about reccomended minimum requirements for Naxx, not for ‘I’ve looted half of naxx and now its easymode’ numbers.
We did every fight except Saph and KT before my mana pool got considerably larger and whilst a challenge in terms of mana regen the only fight where I *ever* came close to oom was Patchwerk.
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EUgLuS hi! how you doin?
I don’t agree with alot of the healing requirements here. The only healer intensive fight is sapphiron, and if this is a guide for entering naxx, then im assuming you will have some gear before u get that far into the instance, being that theres so many bosses, and most drops will be upgrades for you. As for the disc priest above, saying his mp5 and not his crit prooves to me that he hasn’t been playing one very long. Because of the nature of Rapture, our talent for mana return, crit is important as it increases the amount of hpm you can put out. Mp5 is not a stat to be stacking as a disc priest, rather then aiming for 20-25% holy crit and higher spell power. Also spirit isnt a stat to stack as disc, so where the mp5 is coming from i don’t know. As for paladin healers, a good one shouldn’t need that high of spell power, 1300 would be fine would a decent amount of crit, and as for Mp5 for holy paladin, the benefits you receive from BoW should come close to almost completely covering your Mp5. Like i stated for disc priest, your crit increases hpm because of Illumination and the most obvious reason, the mana cost of a spell not increasing with a crit. If you can spam your flash up knowing it will crit extremely often, thus healing largely for its small mana cost, you should be able to use it indefinitely (certainly not saying this is the only spell a holy paladin should use). As for druid and shaman, i’m not as educated, however the fights in naxx are so surprisingly easy that i would be inclined to guess that when you do hit 80, providing you were saving up a full healing set from quests, you would be ready to enter naxxramas.
@Peanutsauce: They’re recommended requirements. Healers just have to use their judgment and find out what’s right for them.
Matticus, just want to say that I believe these stats are pretty basic and valid esp if you want to have a sucessful pug but at the end of the day it comes down to your raid set up and the players skills.
You said it fairly well with …
Quote:Treat these as guidelines! Use your discretion. If you can handle a few heroics under your belt, then you’re ready to give Naxx a shot! Don’t expect to be killing Kel’Thuzad or anything right away. Know your limits.
hehe soooo true plus you gotta remember – you can’t fix stupid
Holy paladin
2080 BH unbuffed
19.1k mana
33.19% holy spell crit
412 haste
80 Mp5 : ) (I dont know how I do it but i never run outa mana)
when I started I was no where near this and I thaught I would never get to this point. Look me up *Cindior*
“Note: Both percentages assume you are completely naked and lacking in hit-increasing buffs. You can find your hit percentage by mousing over the hit rating on your character screen.”
Naked ? Yeah right. Lets clear naxx all naked shall we ?
Oki im a good geared rogue….10% hit rat 3500 ap and 29.86% crit…but my dps varries between 2500-2800.But when i see other dpsers with 4k or bigger on naxx 25 i just flip out.
Can anyone give me some ideea of what am i doing wrong?
i am a ret pally usually my dps is 1800-2000 usually around 1800 and my gear is pretty decent i am almost all epics with 3.3k ap 25% crit 280 hit rating
is this normal for ret pallys cause i feel we are doing less dmg than other classes with similair gear
Vik: That’s difficult to troubleshoot without more details. I know the casters in my guild will frequently do more damage because of the amount of AoE they can pull off. When measuring your DPS, use Patchwerk to see where you truly stack up.
Johnny: I’m not sure about this, but I think your hit rating can go up a bit more. I’ve known Ret Paladins who can clock out 5.5k DPS consistently on Patches.
Catscratch: You’re reading that too literally. I meant not having any gear on with any hit at all.
Exxxxcellent that I found your post when I searched for “level 80 resto shaman naxx requirements” in google. I will be referring to this post regularly as my various toons make their way to 80 and I dream about their futures 😉
Ta ta!
Valdesta
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right now, my pally sits on roughly 1800 SP unbuffed, 31% crit, and over 500 mp5. i never oom, even on healing intensive fights where i must spam 6-10 holy lights in a row. if you have strong enough healers to pick up ur slack, you can take really any healer into naxx. i’ve two healed it with myself and a fresh 80 pally (he had less then 1100 SP buffed) and we cleared all four wings.
oh and to peanutsauce: Patchwerk can be a pretty intensive fight as well, and heigan if people cant make the run, and thaddius when u get noobs crossing the polarities…
I have around 3k healing done on Patchwerk as pala
i have 1800sp
19k mana unbuffed and 28% crit chance
is this reasonable for naxx 25?
I have seen lots of comments about healing / mana / dps and such I am a DK tank and want to know what everyone thinks, I can’t do all the fancy links and such but you can find me in the wow armory or wow hero’s, toons name is Manace. Thanks.
im getting ready for my first Naxx 10 tonight and reading all these requirements make me feel more safer although only thing that kills me when healing is my haste (Resto Shammy) i have a 19k mana pool unbuffed 1.8SP Unbuffed and 27% Crit but when i heal like H Totc some people die before my heals come out, so i spam my heals but then my mana drains to quick 🙁