I received a lead on a potential recruit the other day as a guild member referral. The fellow had a few questions about the guild before he submitted a formal application. He’d been out of the game for a while having not played since the early tiers of Cataclysm. I set aside my in-game responsibilities so I could devote my full attention and answer whatever his concerns were.
- What were our immediate class needs?
- How is Mists raiding?
- Is it okay if he applies sometime before patch 5.2?
I answered him as honestly as I could. Our immediate needs are DPS warriors, resto druids, and mistweaver/DPS monks. Ultimately it depended on what he wanted to play the most. Mists raiding is engaging and fun. Yes, he can apply specifically for 5.2.
We chatted a little more. I went over his guild history and made attempts to verify his accomplishments and affiliations as best I could. After I was satisfied, I asked him what loot system his previous guild used. Conquest has always utilized loot council from the beginning.
“We used DKP.”
My eyes widened. I was quite surprised. Normally, I expect cutting edge guilds to rely on Loot Council or some other similar system to maximize the effectiveness of loot on their players and to make sure it goes to the right people.
But DKP? I didn’t think this was the type of guild to use it. Why did they choose to use DKP?
“We originally used Loot Council for a long time. However, we eventually realized that it took an extraordinary amount of time to really add all the potential stats gained for different players. It simply took too long for the officers to make the most effective choice even though they were all quite knowledgeable of the different classes. Plus once we entered farm mode, the loot drops would eventually sort itself out since we were raking in tons of drops a week making gearing the raid up easy.”
In our raids, it can take a little longer than normal to get through select items like weapons and trinkets so I can see where the interest of time comes from. When you’re in the race for world first, you need to really be on point with time management. No one wants to lose out on world firsts because they were busy distributing loot.
I’m not planning on shifting loot systems at the moment but I found it a fascinating insight into how top tier guilds work. While each loot system has it’s distinct specialties, it’s up to you to select the right one for your guild.
“Normally, I expect cutting edge guilds to rely on Loot Council or some other similar system to maximize the effectiveness of loot on their players and to make sure it goes to the right people.”
I think this is off target. What you miss is that the “cutting edge” actually rely on loot the least, in some ways. The sooner you enter farm, the less relevant loot is. This is what Blizzard is missing too with their silly proposed 25m fixed — raiders don’t raid for loot. It is simply not a major motivator; honestly it is more of a pain in the ass than a reward.
We aren’t world top 10, but we are US top 50 and we certainly don’t use loot council. We use a custom built loot addon which is basically EPGP that awards loot based on attendance & prior loot earned. Gears everyone evenly. I do not think we are unique at all in that. The less trouble a loot system is the better.
Anyways, why raid with people who will be prioritized over – or under – other people? Everyone in my raid deserves loot evenly or as fast as me, otherwise why am I raiding with them…. that’s how I see it.
anafielle
anafielle I’ve always remained staunchly *against* loot council; I’ve feel it is too easy to manipulate. The rule of absolute power corrupting absolutely came back to bite other hardcore raiding guilds time and again. There’s no denying that it is an effective way to distribute gear, but loot council is for close, tight-knit guilds, pref. ones where members of the guild know each other in real life (and have to face each other the next day at work/school).
When Descendants of Draenor ran 40m raids, we used a fixed-price zero sum dkp system that was based off of EJs, but by TBC, we had moved to private bidding DKP; fixed-price takes a LOT of administrative time and energy. Plus, we had heavy churn through the roster, so DKP made the most sense to keep track of who earned what and when–so they could keep their place in line if they took some time off.
As for prioritizing certain players over others, I can make an entire blog post about that.
And plan to.
you should seriously look at EPGP system. An issue isn’t just the time for loot distrbution but showing up for raids,on time and being on stand by. You could also reward people who contribute to the guild in other ways by donations etc..
Maybe something to bring up and discuss. Loot council was a good idea but it can’t hurt to look at better ideas