Illi-down: Joy and Disappointment

I never expected myself to get Kalecgos down before Illidan, but go figure. We knocked him out after roughly 3 hours tonight. First kill took 19 minutes and 28 seconds.

Phat loot

Chestguard of the Forgotten Vanquisher x 2
Chestguard of the Forgotten Conqueror
Shroud of the Highborne
Faceplate of the Impenetrable

Well, there we go. Illidan is dead and we have several months remaining to try to get Kil’Jaden down before Wrath debuts. That’s the happy part.

Here’s the disappointing part and to many of you, it will no doubt appear sad that I’m sad about this. I just found out tonight the the Paladin who has more DKP than I will be getting the Crystal Spire of Karabor before I will. There’s nothing I can do to stop it because he’s willing to put up a substantial amount.

I wish players would do a bit of reading and research to find out what items benefit which classes the most first. The Crystal Spire is a topic that’s been written about earlier and it’s a weapon that should go to Priests and Shamans first. Is it bad for a Paladin? No. But the other classes will be able to utilize it better. I do firmly believe that items should be awarded to players or classes who can make the most out of it.

This is the one of the few downsides of DKP systems, but I’ll leave that for Wyn to touch on when she returns.

Now that Illidan’s down, I suppose I can just relax and retire. Maybe I’ll buy myself an island off the coast of Jamaica somewhere. Or retire to a nice little cottage in the interior and do some golf once in a while or shoot some birds or whatever it is that retired people do.

34 thoughts on “Illi-down: Joy and Disappointment”

  1. Gratz on downing Illidan, its a big step!

    However as for the spire, surely thats what DKP is for, you spend it on items you want and that you feel will improve your character, it might be a big improvement for you, but if another player with more dkp wants it, and its not something totally silly (which most guilds don’t allow) such as a warrior dkping on healer gear (a prot paladin might have an arguement, a warrior I can’t see needing healing plate :P). It’s possibly a shame but I have to side with the dkp system, its a reward system for raiding a lot, if you don’t raid as much or got other items why should you be able to skirt around someone that can also feasibly and viably use the item. Many of the upgrades offered to us at this stage are small upgrades, but its still an upgrade.

    Anyway, gratz on the kill, and hopefully he will drop 2 in successive weeks for you!

    2ndNins last blog post..On dungeons, linearity and randomness

  2. GratsI got our first kill 2 weeks ago, and second last weds. No spire for us in 2 kills but the greatstaff dropped, which rocks the roll.

  3. Congo Rats Dude!

    And whats up with the Pally DKPers! As I mentioned to you about a week ago on twitter, the pally tank in our guild (who well deserved all the DKP he has) snagged up the first Tempest of Chaos that dropped before any other casters did. Sure he can hold agro no problem but he was doing that fine before…..bleh.

  4. Congratulations on the kill! Now you get to farm.

    As for the retirement part, you could always play badminton.


  5. Gratz on the kill matt 🙂 You guys have all worked very hard and the time has payed off, but the game still has some challeges left for you. Continue into sunwell and continue to have fun night after night hour after hour 🙂

  6. Here’s the rub…

    Why do you have less DKP than the Paladin in question?

    Either he shows up more or you already spent DKP on an upgrade.

    In both situations the result is the same. If he shows up more, it benefits the raid more for him to have it. If you spent some DKP, well you got your items already, let someone else have some love.

    Gratz on the kill.

  7. Yes Waveman, I’ve spent DKP for a while and truth be told I could’ve made some better choices. I Picked up 2 Karabor rings when I should’ve picked up 1 (this was before the Hyjal rep gain increase). I have a near flawless attendance. I’ve only ever missed 4 raids in an entire year. We’re only about 50 behind each other anyway. This isn’t about attendance. It’s about who stands to benefit the raid more with it.

    But regardless, this means I can plan for second or even third if the number 2 pally also has an itchy trigger finger. I will not make it cheap for them, either way.

  8. Grats on Illidan, we got him 3 weeks ago, 3x felhunter on a stick so far.

    As a Paladin unless we get 5 or 6 I plan to pass and wait for a mace from Sunwell. If their was’nt a badge mace available it would be a different matter as a Holy paladin has more chance of t6 2 handed dps weapon then a healing mace despite the abundance of healing Staffs. We even have one stubborn Paladin sitting on 5/t6 and Kara Mace because they refuse to use Badge gear.

  9. Aren’t you on the record as saying you don’t mind when someone else gets loot because it means you’ll be able to spend less DKP the next time? Can’t have it both ways.

  10. Maybe it’s because I’ve seen about… eleven… Spires in my day, I think they go best on Shaman (chain heal) and then equally on every other class except Druid (which should never get it). I read the write-up, but I don’t 100% agree. While it’s great for a CoH Priest, it’s almost equal for a Paladin simply because of the stats; they need the mp5 more than the crit the Hyjal mace brings as well. Similarly, they only have a 1her slot, so you have access to Gurtogg’s staff and Apostle, which are great and the Paladin can’t equip.

    Moniques last blog post..What Makes a Game: Part IV – The Characters

  11. Not to jump on you again, but thats what it does mean, if you don’t mind someone else getting it as a reward for their efforts, then you can’t realistically say you are not happy about it, as thats the basis of the system, raiding -> reward. Also isn’t this the best weapon in the pre-sunwell game for Paladins, so he is optimising the raid by ensuring that he is as well geared, and correctly geared as possible in that slot. I picked up Myrmidon’s Treads last night (woot Akama Kill!), over a warrior. Now as a paladin this might seem bad, they are a 11stamina, 100 armour and 2% avoidance (at the loss of 27 spell damage basically) upgrade, I could have waited for the boots from Naj’entus if they ever drop which I likely would have gotten cheaper, however for the raid me being able to swap in avoidance gear, and indeed being more geared for the level of progression we are making is surely beneficial to the raid, indeed wearing these and the avoidance gear I have actually allows me to swap my libram letting me increase a proportion of my threat.

    Gearing decisions are very hard for classes with a wide range of options, a cloth healer never worries about the differences between cloth, leather, mail and plate healing gear and the optimal configuration of these, nor does a Paladin worry about main hand healing weapons as we have a very defined upgrade path, its when you have options that suddenly these choices become very stark and hard to make, and indeed the interaction. As a paladin tank I effectively ninja’d warrior gear last night, there is a paladin drop in that slot from a different boss, however thats only from his perspective, from mine I acquired a good avoidance upgrade and likely MT gear at the expense of a threat piece. Gearing and the interaction between classes is a really difficult thing, because what is a choice for one may not be a choice for another, and indeed making that choice is often a personal value, I valued the boots at roughly 3/4ths of my dkp, he valued them less than I did, so I walked away with a nice item in that slot (it was a 3rd best to 2nd best in slot move for both of us, if he had been wearing something lower I would have passed). I don’t feel like a ninja, I feel like I valued the item, and that it was a viable upgrade for myself and the raid.

    2ndNins last blog post..On dungeons, linearity and randomness

  12. I think those saying ‘DKP are DKP’ are right… but perhaps missing the point a little.

    Here’s an extreme example: my raid downs a particular boss, and a nice piece of cloth armour drops that I’ve been after. The longstanding tank, however, with more DKP than sense, outbids me because it would perfect his ‘RP suit.’

    On a strictly point-focused basis, he’s certainly within his rights to spend his accumulated ‘currency.’ But I’d also be right to be a little bit disaffected by this.

    Obviously, this is not an ‘RP issue,’ but if an item has been demonstrated to be of greatest benefit to a particular class, others should at least give that some consideration, if nothing else than for the good of the raid.

    I suppose it depends on what kind of people you raid with.

    Apoptygmaas last blog post..The Cauldron Begins to Simmer

  13. No, thats called being an ass.

    DKP is DKP, and a normal guild as main > off > felt like it distributions, that is you can’t actually roll on an item simply because it looks pretty unless no one that can use it wants it. Thus your tanks get “priority” on tank loot at a reasonable cost (competition only against other tanks), but once it opens up its free against any user of that item. I haven’t seen a guild yet that just used DKP as a number, or if they did anyone that tried to do that was /gkicked for being an ass.

    There are situations in which a class you wouldn’t expect will roll on stuff, as a Protection Paladin I want:

    Paladin Defense Gear – #1
    Warrior Defense Gear – #2
    Paladin Threat Gear -#3
    Effective Heath Gear – #4
    Avoidance Gear – #5
    Threat Gear – #6

    Avoidance gear is mainly trinkets and necks, again these tend to really be tanky items anyway but there is the possibility for conflict, #1,#2 are controversial, can / should I roll over a warrior when they won’t use the gear from other bosses that I can? and #6 is the real crux, I want stuff like the Eye of Magetheridon and Hex Shrunken head for my threat sets, and yes I do use them, however DPS get horribly upset if the tank needs on these items as they see it as an area that is theirs (I don’t need on cloth threat gear, I need the armour from my plate). I am not evil about it, I tend to let casters get it first with a bid I know people interested in it should beat, however I want this gear for a valid reason, its a useful tool for me as well as them.

    In this case there was no asshattery, a user of that weapon took an upgrade for himself at a high dkp cost, that seems like the definition of dkp to me really, if he had needed the Bulwark as a holy paladin there might have been issues with main vs offspec, but needing gear in your sphere of selection seems 100% acceptable.

    2ndNins last blog post..On PvP on a PvE server

  14. All I can say in response to Matt is a priest took the Healing cloak from Illidan

    But im sure all you priesty types can justify that 😛

  15. Jump on me all you want.

    Doc, yes, I frowned when that happened.

    When I say I don’t mind, I mean it in a sense that there’s nothing I can do. I believe that the best class that can maximize the use of the weapon or any piece of gear should get it. DKP is there to determine the ORDER of which player within the class gets it first. I never said Paladins should NOT get it at all. I don’t mind if they get the weapon. It is perhaps the top 1H weapon any Holy Paladin can get at this point. All of the ones the Paladins in our Guild are packing are the mace from that 3rd boss in Hyjal (spell crit). I myself am using the staff from Archimonde.

    There are some people in my Guild who do not have a clue as to what item is optimized for their class, and what isn’t. When we killed Kael, there was a Paladin who spent DKP on a cape with Spirit. We killed Illidan, like Doc said, one of our Priests spent DKP on a spell haste cloak. There’s countless of other examples. Again, I don’t mind because there’s nothing I can do about it. If they want to spend it, fine, power to them.

    I could have made better spending choices on my DKP and gear earlier in the year, yes. But I believe the early purchases allowed me to help advance my Guild to the point where its at now. I had problems with dying. I could barely stay alive past volcanoes and spines from Naj. So early non-set cloth healing I picked up, I placed stamina gems in them to give myself an extra chance to perform better to get to this point. Remember the 2.4 patch changed a lot of things which essentially screwed half of my purchases over.

    So, to bottom line:
    Do I mind? No.
    Am I annoyed that players in my guild don’t know what items that should be getting and in what order? Yes.

    Oxymoron? Probably.

  16. Its not an oxymoron, people should know the loot they want and buy it. Buying the wrong loot is just plain silly since it doesn’t really help you. My argument isn’t against you complaining about that, that makes sense, its not really an item for your class, but in Pally vs Priest its best for both so dkp should win out.

    2ndNins last blog post..On PvP on a PvE server


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