Guild Topics

This is a two part series on advancing from being an AotC player to a CE (Cutting Edge) player from both the player and guild perspective. Today, we look at the player side and what are commonly valued traits.

DJ’s recently killed Mythic Raszageth. The guild had a bit of a slowdown during Shadowlands and went more casual in terms of time and attitude. During our end of expansion survey and post-mortem, the majority of the team answered that they wanted to make a push to being a Cutting Edge team again heading into Dragonflight. Normally, making the jump from an AotC guild to a CE guild takes time. By my experience, it happens gradually over the course of maybe 2 or 3 raid tiers on average. For some guilds, it never happens because they break up or run into a boss wall that can’t be overcome.

I received a question on Twitter from someone who was interested in making that leap. I’ve also received questions along these lines from a few of the other players in the community who had considered applying to DJs but felt they were lacking the experience.

Any suggestions for a AOTC playing looking to take it to the next level and join a CE guild for next tier?

Let’s start with a general foundation. You have your Normal and Heroic guilds. Above that, you have your Ahead of the Curve guild. As that guild decides to push harder and make a play for better loot or a challenge, they might evolve into a Mythic Raiding guild that knocks off a few bosses here and there but gets stonewalled by the remaining final bosses. That’s where most guilds stop. The ones that get over the hump of guild killers end up turning into a Cutting Edge guild. The elusive Hall of Fame guild is generally reserved for the top 100 guilds in both Horde and Alliance, however heading into patch 10.1, it is being amalgamated into the top 200 guilds (regardless of faction). I don’t have experience at that level so I can’t really say anything about it with confidence. In my mind, it’s incredibly rare for someone to go directly from an AotC guild straight to a CE guild. The typical path starts from AotC to a Mythic Raiding environment in order to get eased in before it ramps up (either that same Mythic guild evolves into a CE guild or the player looks for one).

Commitment

Being in a CE guild is a commitment. You can’t take breaks in the middle of a raid tier and expect to come back and waltz into a Cutting Edge achievement. Expect to maintain a high level of attendance. That being said, I’m a big believer in taking a raid night off or two once in a while if you need that small reset and if the raid group can spare it. Commitment is more than just the raid nights. You still have to find the time to help progress your character in other ways. As much as I dislike it, the Mythic+ system is the other way to help fill out your gear and address any weaknesses there. Players try to aim for 8 dungeons complete to maximize their vault. In the early stages of progression, this is ideal. Later on in the tier, it isn’t as important. Nowadays, I stick to getting at least 1 box out of my vault. Sometimes the stats from the gear drops may not be the most optimized for you, but having that extra bit of health can help you survive lethal attacks. When you’re looking to progress on a boss, your own survival is paramount. Your performance will naturally improve later as you get more comfortable (and with gradual gear improvement).

Consistency

Everything you do from your opener to your cooldown usage, to the positioning should all be as consistent as possible. If the raid leader makes a change because there isn’t enough DPS on a platform ad and it’s because you forgot to use a potion or a cooldown, then that change was made for nothing and further imbalances the player assignments. Be the player that everyone can expect and depend upon. I will value a player who consistently hits the 85th percentile over someone who swings from 75th to 95th. Sure their ceiling might be higher, but at least I know what I’ll get out of 85 over the course of 30 pulls. This might be harder to do for healing since that type of performance is contingent on damage coming in, but you can still maintain a degree of predictability of your position and where your major cooldowns will be although this is typically assigned in advance. Expect your raid leaders to direct where major defensive cooldowns will be committed.

Skill

This topic could be its own separate post. It boils down to being good at what you do. Stay alive and push damage while doing the required mechanics. Stay on top of your consumables and execute as best as you can. Stop dying to the same things repeatedly. I’d rather have players learn something new and creative to die from as opposed to not being able to figure out and solve the same thing causing lethal damage over and over. Any player movement needs to be on point. Can’t miss your interrupts. Any target switches have to be quick. It goes on and on. Be up to date with any class or spec changes that you have to account for. Flexibility in spec changing is valued but it isn’t necessarily a deal breaker (I mean, I’ve been a Holy Priest main since the game practically launched).

Lastly, do big numbers when it’s warranted.

Endurance

Mental fortitude is critical! Raszageth took us around 186 wipes (or 206 depending on who you ask). We started working on Rasz on March 17th and kept extending until we got her down on April 8th. But that’s nothing compared to some of the earlier encounters from previous expansions. When you’re progressing on bosses such as Kil’Jaeden in Tomb of Sargeras or Uu’nat in Crucible of the Storms, expect to wipe often and for any kind of progress to be measured in weeks. Hopefully, bosses like that won’t be designed again anytime soon. There are some days when you may choose to sit and not come in because you need a mental reset and this is where a sizeable bench of players comes in handy.

Self-Reflection

Have the wherewithal to look at your own performance and see where improvements can be made. Too often, I see players immediately raid log. The ones that catch my attention stay behind after raid to decompress and discuss shortcomings. Granted, we also raid fairly late for east coast players so sometimes they need to check out and pass out. Even so, during the week, there’s healthy discussion in Discord and the willingness to ask hard questions like, “I died to this and I can’t figure out how to address it.” During our first few pulls on Mythic Terros, I kept taking lethal damage repeatedly. I was simply too slow and any attempts to cast spells were often interrupted because I had to move or risk death. I started off in melee and voiced my concerns before I got the go-ahead to switch with a player at range which made a massive difference.

Communication

You might not need to speak that often to the rest of the team during the middle of a pull but be prepared to talk if the situation comes down to it. Mistakes are going to happen and you’ll need to say something so that someone else can help cover it such as a missed interrupt or if you’re in a bad position. On Kurog, if two people have Absolute Zero and they’re in the same area, one of them needs to speak up and say what they’re going to do. If a raid leader asks you a question, you need to respond even if the answer is, “I don’t know”. We had players who were trialing with us over the weeks and if they took lethal damage and died, our raid leader would ask, “How did you die?” and the silence was quite deafening. Can’t be shy when it comes to communicating quickly about any type of mechanics change, positioning change, or information relevant to the raid. I can tell how comfortably they are communicating in a raid environment based on Mythic+ play. In Court of Stars, CE players will often call dibs on next interrupts for things like Charging Station or AoE stuns and stops for those annoying Imps in the back half of that instance.

This just about covers everything from the player’s side. There’s other nuances to consider. I haven’t even touched upon UI elements but how information is received and how it’s responded to is another consideration. I remember reviewing a fellow player’s UI and was instantly overwhelmed. In a future post, I’ll illustrate my thoughts about how guild leadership can step up from being an AotC guild to a CE guild as there is a clear contrast in how things are handled both in and out of the raid.

Further reading

• Raid Awareness is a Learned and Practiced Skill

What exactly is the 21st Raider? Mythic raid sizes only go up to 20! Think of the 21st raider as a coach. No doubt you’ve heard of some of the top end guilds utilizing the position of a 21st raider to help with encounters. We use this extensively in DJs and it’s been beneficial for us. An orchestral conductor will often cue various sections during key entries (like the brass in Raiders March from Indiana Jones) even though they should already know this if they’re keeping time. That emphasis helps ensure that everyone is in sync. Likewise, the 21st raider can function the same way and help remind the raid what’s about to happen and how they should respond. It’s one less mental load that raiders need to keep at the forefront. I remember back during Shadowlands when we were progressing on Stone Legion Generals that there was often confusion between the big shared soak versus the individual solo soak (that involved running out and dropping circles). Having a reminder would have helped cut down on the number of pulls until we had it ingrained.

What you’re not there to do is to tell each player how to play their class unless it’s an integral part of the encounter (like Warlock gates or reminding them of defensive CDs). The big advantage of this is that it removes some of the thinking required for players and allows them to fully focus and commit to their rotation while staying alive. They still have to do some of the mechanics (because you’re not in there to do it for them), but a prompt or a reminder can go a long way, especially when progressing on a new boss. Encounters are getting increasingly complex, especially at the Mythic level.

So what does it take to be effective in that role?

Before we start that, we need to over the setup. Someone needs to stream their perspective to you so that you can see what’s going on.

How to Stream a Point of View Efficiently

Make sure the selected raider has a fast and stable internet connection with a great upload speed. This will allow them to stream at a high quality. They’ll want to stream at least in 1080 or higher with 60 FPS if possible. We use Discord for this.

• Have Raid Notes Displayed: Your MRT window with the note should be displayed on the side somewhere. I like to position mine on the far left portion of my screen.

• Show Raid Cooldowns: The raid caller will need to see who has what available in case they need to audible a defensive in the event a player dies or boss ability timing changes partway through the encounter. With MRT, it has the ability to display raid cooldowns. I personally use a combination of Weak Auras for this with Zen Tracker (Zera DF Update), and the ZT Front-End Textual. I can never remember what raid icons correspond with what abilities and I prefer having the names of both players and abilities.

• Boss Ability Timers: This one’s obvious. In order for the raid caller to do their job, they need to see what’s about to happen. Place your Bigwigs or DBM bars somewhere prominent. I prefer using the Raid Ability Timeline Weak Aura which condenses all the abilities into a timeline view but it can still be done with bars.

What information is important to call?

As the group progresses through the fight, the 21st raider’s responsibilities might change from phase to phase or as the group gets more progressed in the encounter. Balance important and relevant information with minimalism. Brad Pitt once told Matt Damon to not use seven words when four will do. So channel your inner Brad Pitt!

Critical abilities: Figure out what’s important and what isn’t. As the group first learns about the encounter, certain abilities have to be highlighted to remind the raid what’s about to happen and how to respond. But as they get more familiar, these types of calls can be reduced because of the ingrained muscle memory. After 4 or so pulls, you don’t need to remind people to line up pillars on Terros or to always drop puddles behind Eranog.

Examples

Terros: “Stack for soak, line up pillars”
Eranog: “Puddles behind boss.”

Upcoming cooldowns: As your players start learning the damage patterns, it helps to reinforce which players are using raid cooldowns next. All it takes is a gentle reminder. Name the player and the spell so that they know. You may have to be prepared to call an audible in case that healer isn’t able to commit their defensive cooldown to it. Maybe they died early or you phased ahead of schedule and the spell isn’t available yet. Get creative. It’s not just cooldowns here because consumables play a part and even at this level, players often forget they have it available or choose not to use it (I call this the Megalixir effect).

Examples

Council: “Next Fire Axe is an Aura Mastery.”

Raszageth: “First shield in 3, this is DPS potions and Matt’s Divine Hymn.”

Terros: “This tank slam is a Health Potion.”

Raid movement: Another good one to mention is for upcoming player movements. You’re directing traffic and reminding the team where to go to drop off any important debuffs. This might also involve instructing when Warlock gates need to be used. Not just that, but this is great for any stacking or spread-out motions. On specific fights, you can wave off the group from soaking (like Kurog if a Mage has the frost bomb that they can Ice Block).

Examples

Sennarth: “Wait for Chilling, then take gate up the stairs.”

Kurog: “Freezing Tempest, stack in now.”

Dathea (Mythic): “NO MORE dunks on blue, all dunks on green.”

DPS Priority Targets: This one’s an easy one to miss especially for melee players. There are going to be bosses where adds will appear and they can show up in a part of the map that isn’t quite so obvious. On the flip side, it’s also necessary to issue stop DPS instructions in case you want to slow down damage so that you don’t enter a phase you’re not quite equipped for yet.

Examples

Sennarth: “Spider spawn in 3, get ready.”

Dathea: “Need to move Infuser, all stop DPS.”

Battle Res: Not every player that dies has to get resurrected right away. When the group progress is getting close to a kill, it might be better served to hold one in reserve just in case a more critical player dies (like a tank or a healer). This also applies for Shamans because they might have died in a bad spot and they can’t use their own self resurrection. If there are multiple players dead with a limited number of resurrects, it’s time to decide who will be more valuable alive. Maybe you don’t need the extra healer on their feet but you have to have extra DPS instead to help with the final push. Or there’s two DPS players down but one has offensive CDs available and the other does not. Lastly, not only do you want to control who takes the res but also when they should take the res. I’ve seen instances where the res is cast in a bad position or there’s an ability about to occur that makes it unsafe. Be prepared to say wait!

All that being said, work with the raid group to see what information is and isn’t necessary anymore. I hope this helps you become better at helping your raid. Players might find as they’re getting better that specific calls are getting redundant and don’t need to be mentioned. You’re there to function as a guide and to help reduce some of that mental load until it becomes second nature.